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All right, we're ready for departure. Here at the Pilot Project Podcast,

the best source for stories and advice from the pilots of the

RCAF. I'm your host, Brian Morrison. Returning with me

today is our guest from Episode 15, newly winged

RCAF pilot Scott Harding. Scott,

congratulations and welcome to the show.

Thanks very much. Glad to be back, Brian. Yeah.

So before we start, let's go over Scott's Bio as a

refresher. Scott joined the RCAF in

2007 as an Air Combat Systems Officer, or

Axo, through the regular officer training program. Upon

completing his degree at the University of Western Ontario, he was sent to

one Canadian Forces flight training school, now known as

402 Squadron in Winnipeg, Manitoba. Here, he

earned his Axo wings in 2012 and was posted to

414 Electronic Warfare Squadron in Ottawa.

After five years of flying, he completed successive staff tours

as an operational planner with the Air Component Coordination

Element, or Ace, in Yellowknife, and then as a senior staff

officer for Electronic Warfare at one Canadian Air Division

in Winnipeg. 15 years after originally joining,

scott finally made the switch to pilot, and as of three days ago, uh, at

the time of this recording, has completed phase three flight training and

earned his RCAF pilot wings at three Cfffts

in Portage. Today, we're following through on our promise to

check in with Scott and hear about his adventures in the flight training

program. If you haven't already listened to Scott's first interview

on Episode 15, I highly recommend you check that one out as

well, to learn about his background and phase one and two.

So, Scott, when I was making this interview, I realized, I

don't think we covered this the first time around. Where did

aviation start for you?

Aviation started for me, like a lot of your guests, I was an air cadet

growing up.

Okay?

But getting me into air cadets was, uh, my grandfather,

who flew for Canada for many, many years.

My mom just sent me a picture of my

grandfather, my grandmother, I think it was 1955,

black and white photo. And it was their wedding announcement

from the newspaper. And they were,

congratulations to Mr. And Mrs. Clark,

who are going to Portage La Prairie, Manitoba,

for their first trip as a couple, because

Dave Clark is posted to Portage La Prairie

for flight training.

No kidding.

1955? Yeah. So he was a pilot

way back in the day. And I remember, uh,

stories of him flying Air Canada, flying prime

ministers around and all that jazz that built

into me joining Air Cadets london Air Show

was a thing every year back in the day, and loved

doing that. And, uh, it just kind of built and built and built. I

did power and glider as an air cadet and then

eventually went well, the next logical step is

joining the military to fly.

Yeah. So, like so many of us. Another air

cadet.

So many of us.

So here we are. You're done. Phase three. How was it? How was your experience

on phase three?

It was fast and furious. The course is

short. It's a lot of effort in a really

short period of time. So it's only about four months

long. And you have a test, like week

one and a half. You're already writing your first exam.

Your second exam is like, a week later. And then

you're right into the sims, right into the airplane.

And, uh, it's pretty constant, but, uh, it

was a lot of fun. It was a great experience. Great

people, great instructors. The cross countries and the

mutual flights, all amazing opportunities. And I

learned a ton. I struggled a bit, but I learned a ton.

Okay, I'm really interested to hear about that.

Yeah.

Did you find the learning curve to be steep?

It was yeah. Like I said, day one,

you do the normal introduction. Hi, everybody. This

is all the people you need to know. Day

two was into the books and be prepared for your

first exam next Wednesday. Kind of deal. Yeah.

Even when I came back to do my instructor course,

we spend the first couple of weeks of ground school with the

phase three course. If there's one starting at that time, and it

is like, boom, here we go. Get ready for your first exam because

it's next week.

Yeah, exactly.

What were the biggest differences between Phase two and three?

So I know I said on phase two or here in Portage, in

general, they treat you like an adult and you're kind

of responsible for your own success or failure. It's

even more so in Phase three. I found there was

more computer based training CBTS in

phase three, and it was really just, all right,

off you go. Come back in a week and we're going to test

you on all the things that you need to know. There were some,

uh, instructor led lessons to confirm the knowledge

and reviews before you write the test, but

it really is the entire course.

It's dependent on you and the work that you do

in order to pass. Yeah.

And there's a good reason for that, too. Right. As you can attest

to as an axo and being out in the real

world, when you get to a squadron, they're not going to hold your

hand. They're going to give you an upgrade booklet and say,

okay, we'll see you in two years. You'll get

mentorship and training, of course, but it's going to be up to you to complete

those things and to take the initiative.

Yeah, exactly. So I think it's really good. I think it

builds upon what they did in phase two in the sense

of getting you to be successful on your own

and then this really just takes it the next step.

Yeah, for sure. So can you take us through a

day in the life of a Phase three student?

Yeah. So ground school is very much the same as it was on

phase two. Wake up in the morning, go get breakfast,

head into the study lounge, and you're either doing

CBTS all day or, uh, you're in the classroom

with an instructor.

And for the listeners, CBTS is computer based

training.

The difference between phase two and phase three in the flying portion

is more so there's a lot more prep and planning I

found for the phase three flying.

So where in phase two there was a little bit of

map prep and then route study. In phase three,

there's a lot of understanding the rules and

regs a lot more in detail. M, can I

take off today? What's the weather going to be like

tomorrow? Is it VMC? Is it, uh, VFR

meteorological conditions? I e. Is it nice

outside? Can I go fly? Or is it IMC

IFR meteorological conditions wherein

I need to use my instruments? Well, we're doing a VFR portion

today, so it has to be nice outside. We have to

have 3000 foot ceilings and 3 miles

visibility, that kind of stuff. So understanding those

rules a lot more in depth than we had

to in phase two. A lot more of the decision making

is on the students, seemingly anyways. I know

the instructors are making all the calls in the background, but they

rely on us to brief them. Hey, this is the weather today

and this is what we can and can't do.

Yeah, I've seen that too. My observation has been that

obviously the instructor has the final say, like

you said, but the students have to take ownership in the process and

they have to be actively involved in, like you said, not just

knowing the rules, but interpreting and applying them. Which is like

a whole other level.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. It's one thing to know what the

words say, but to be able to understand them and apply

them, uh, is really a key to phase three, for

sure.

Yeah. And that's kind of the difference between being

able to select the right bubble on a multiple choice

test and then actually being a pilot.

Yeah, exactly.

So when we last checked in, you said that you found the

hands and feet to be the biggest challenge of the flying

course. Did you find that change in phase three?

No, it was still the biggest challenge. Uh,

I mean, when you look at it, I had a bunch less hours

than most guys coming onto the course, save for

guys like yourself that got to skip phase one with the commercial

license. But then you already had the experience in order to

do that. That's right. So for me, it was still the most

difficult thing. The difference being in the

King Air versus the grove. The King Air. We're not doing

aerobatics. We do steep turns

once in the practice area, and then everything

else after that is circuits and

normal flying stuff.

That's right.

So the hands and feet were still not a problem,

but still the struggle that I had. But for

the most part, I was able to get over that by, again,

just doing the chair flying and making

sure I can offload some of the other

mental stimulation so that I could put

more towards the hands and feet.

Yeah. The good thing about that

being an issue, if I could put it that way,

is it's better than, say, your decision making being your

biggest struggle. Hands and feet will come with time and practice.

Yeah, exactly.

So will most things, but I would argue that

as long as you're able to have good enough hands

and feet to earn your wings, the rest will come in time.

Yeah, exactly.

It's actually a fairly small problem to have.

And, I mean, really, the hands and feet piece

was really only important on landing and

takeoff. Not that those aren't critical times of flight,

but those were the only times that it was really obvious

yeah.

During literally what are known as the critical phases of

flight.

So you just mentioned the simulator. Phase three has

a significant amount of simulation, or roughly about

50%. How did you find that?

It was interesting. A little bit of a change from what I

experienced on the grove side. The simulator for the King

Air has much better fidelity and is actually, uh, a

certified simulator. So when we did our

IFR practice, we were actually

getting actual IFR time that we could

log. So it was interesting

knowing that the first, I think,

18 missions that we did were all in the

simulator. And then you go into the airplane, and

it's like, all right, well, you've already done this 17 times.

You should know how to do this. But wait a minute.

I've never been in this airplane, so it was a bit of a leap

from that. But when you look at, uh, what industry does

I know a couple of guys that are Air Canada pilots and have

never seen the inside of the aircraft until their first

passenger flight. Now, obviously, there's a guy that knows what

he's doing that's flown a bunch beside him. But

for new pilots in our Canada, it's the same kind of

thing. So the fact that there was a lot of simulation,

I think, also takes away, uh, the weather

factor. Uh, it meant, no matter what, every

single day we could be in the simulator.

Yeah. It gives you great continuity.

Exactly. Yeah. So we flew for the first three

weeks we were in the simulator every day.

And for the SIM anyways, we got pretty good at

it. Now, there's some things that the SIM doesn't do great. You

can't taxi in the SIM and basically anything

below 100ft in the SIM is

a bit off. It's not perfect

anyways. Uh, but all of the airborne stuff is

exactly what it's good for. And then the emergencies was the

other piece. So we don't do any actual emergencies in the airplane

anymore. Everything is done in the SIM.

So they can do anything they want in the SIM because you can't

kill yourself. It's all engine failures

and yellow page. So non critical

emergencies, uh, take time, open the checklist and see

what's going on. But also all the critical ones like engine

failures, engine fires, anything that requires you

to take action right away. We can do that all in the

SIM. And then you don't ever risk the airplane or risk

the air crew.

Yeah, and like you said, this is sort of industry

standard and I think it's something we're going to see more and more in the

Air Force. Like it or not. We're always looking

for ways to do things with lower

cost. And obviously it costs less to operate a

simulator than it does to operate an know

as pilots, we all want to fly, we all want to fly the airplane.

And I think it's natural sometimes to have a bit of a,

uh, the SIM again. But the truth is you get great

experience out of it and you go in with a positive attitude and it

can be an awesome learning experience. And like you said,

I bet you the progress you folks made

in those three weeks or so in the SIM was crazy.

You probably went from literally what's, a King

Air to I can operate a King Air.

Yeah, exactly. So we did that three weeks of

simulator stuff and then jumped into the airplane the next

day. And while there's some differences, like I said,

I knew where all the buttons were, I knew how the airplane was going

to react. So I could basically just hop in the

cockpit and go. And there wasn't a lot of get to know

you time with the airplane because I already knew it, it was good to go.

Yeah.

So the training plan, essentially the curriculum

has changed some since we covered it with an instructor.

What are some of the new elements?

So from what I understand from the instructors,

the two big new elements I guess are mutual, uh,

flights, which I think we'll get into, and the

fact that we don't do all the training in Portage anymore. So

from what I understand, the previous training plan,

almost everything was done in portage until you do a couple cross

countries and then you come back and you finish off with

like an iron triangle to Dolphin and Brandon and

back.

Yeah, that's right.

We don't do that anymore. So all of the circuit work that

we do VFR, we do a little bit in portage just to

get comfortable with the airplane and then we leave. We go to Gimli

and Lactobani. We go to Russell.

You know, all these communities around here that have airports,

and we go there to fly mhm for a couple of

reasons, I think. One, because it

forces you to understand different

airports, different procedures. You're not always

under control. So none of those airports that I just mentioned

are controlled airfields like here in Portage.

So you're dealing with Brandon radio, which is just

a guy on the ground who you say, hey, this is what I'm doing. And he

says, cool, here's the other people that are in the area. Or

a Gimli where there's nobody. And you have to talk to the other

traffic directly. Hey, helicopter over there,

I'm over here, I'm doing this. Okay, what are you doing? Okay, now

we all know what we're doing. We'll stay out of each other's way,

deconflict in between, uh, each other. So

it was really good for that. And the other piece is you get

used to different airfields itself.

So if you always land on 31 left

or one three right here in Southport, you're always

going to have Pappies to tell you

where your glide slope is. Right?

So which we just googled and it's precision approach

path indicator. It's a series of lights. There's four of them.

They turn from white to red as you're in the right

position on the glide slope.

Yeah, so in Portage, you always have Pappies if you're on the

outer runway. So you always know what your glide slope looks

like. You're always going to have the same shape of the

runway, you're always going to have the same length of the runway. So

you're going to get used to that. And then you're going to get

into a herc and go fly somewhere in, I don't

know, Africa, where it's a 3000 foot runway

that's only 50ft wide, and you have to figure

out how to land on that mhm. So by going to Gimli,

by going to Lactabani, by going to Brandon and

Verdon and Russell and all these other places, all of the

runways are different shapes and sizes. Uh, obviously they're all

rectangles, but they're all 3000ft

long and 50ft wide, or 7000ft

long and 100ft wide. And it changes the

view and it gives us the perspective of, okay,

I can't always look for the same picture in

front of me. I have to adjust it based on the runway.

Yeah, that's a huge advantage. When I went through,

we focused a lot more on steep turn

stalls, slow flight out in the area, and then we'd come

back and do circuits in Portage, like you

said, almost exclusively. And while I think that was a

good, strong training course, I do think this is going to set,

uh, up pilots for a stronger start

just through the breadth of experience that they're getting.

And also, it's crazy to say,

but sometimes you'll run into people or even you'll

find in yourself, you'll get to a squadron, you'll

learn to fly this new operational aircraft that's super

complex and amazing. You'll have

no problem transiting around IFR because you've done a lot of that kind

of work. But the first time you have to transit somewhere

VFR or the first time you go into an uncontrolled

airport and it's been a while, you got to look up all the

rules, obviously, but it can be like, wow, it's a bit

daunting. I haven't done this much before, so

hopefully we'll have less of that kind of thing going on with this

new training plan.

Yeah, we get a lot of really good experience doing that kind of

stuff.

Yeah, I think that's a great way of conducting the training.

Yeah, for sure.

So you mentioned this briefly before. Can you tell us what a

student mutual is and what it's like to fly one?

So a student mutual is essentially a solo

for a multi engine pilot, if you will. Normally, an

instructional trip is you as a student in the left seat

and the instructor in the right seat of the cockpit. A

student mutual is a student in the left seat and a student in the right seat

with no instructor at all. So very similar to what you would have got as

a solo on a Harvard or in the Grove. And

we have three of those on the course now. The first one is just

in the circuit itself. So you and your

flight partner just go up and beat the pattern a bit,

come back down, land, park it, swap

seats, and then do it again so that the other guy gets the flying

experience and you get, uh, the right seat experience.

The second one is exactly what we just talked about, a

VFR round robin trip. So for my mutual, we went to, uh,

Gimli and then Lactobani and then came back and it

was a lot of fun. So it's just you and another student. You

guys are fully responsible for yourselves, your

airplane, your procedures, and it's really good

for building confidence. The last mutual you do

after your final test, so it's a weird one

in that you're already done. You have essentially

completed the requirements to graduate, but you still have one

flight to go. Mhm, and uh, that's your

first, quote, unquote, solo

IFR trip. It's on what we call

your ticket. So when you pass your final instrument test,

we get an IFR ticket, a license essentially, that

allows us to fly IFR. Normally we've been doing

that with an instructor under their ticket. Now it's

under our ticket. So myself and my partner

got the airplane, made sure it was all gassed up,

figured out what the plan was, flew off to Saskatoon, did

an approach on the way, had lunch in

Saskatoon, got the airplane gassed up, paid

with the credit card given by the school, and then we jumped back in the

airplane and flew back to Portage. So it's really,

you know, we've done all these procedures. I've done this with an

instructor a couple of times. This is the first time where

we get to go out and really do this by ourselves. And

it really solidifies all of the training, all of the

things that we've done to get to that point to pass

the final instrument test. It solidifies all that

in, like, hey, we trust you to go out and do this

by yourselves. Have fun.

That is so cool. I didn't realize that there was a

mutual like, I knew about the mutes that were

going to the circuit doing around Robin. I didn't

realize there was an actual IFR trip

where you shut down and had lunch. And IFR I think we've mentioned,

is instrument flight rules. That's just so cool, because

honestly, it's not something you're going to do until

you're an aircraft commander. And even then,

depending on what aircraft you fly, if you have a flight engineer or

whatever, you're not involved in every single step of that, like the fueling

and stuff. So you might not do that until you're

back at portage as an instructor.

Yeah, exactly.

What a cool thing to do as a new graduate.

Yeah, it was so cool and so much fun to just

get up airborne and then go, wait a

minute, it's all on there's.

There's nobody here to know. Oh,

no, that's what ATC just told you. Or no one to, uh,

okay, let's do this procedure or this kind of

landing. No, no, it's all you. You get to choose what kind

of approach you want to do. If you miss a clearance, you're

calling back to say, hey, sorry,

guys, can you say that again? Because I missed it. It's all on

you. So it's a real good confidence booster, and it was such

a cool experience.

Yeah, I was just going to say the same thing. Um, what a

boost for your confidence to just really show yourself,

like, I can do this, let's go.

Yeah, exactly.

That is awesome.

And as far as I know, between my partner and I, we did

not lose our tickets on this first flight.

You wouldn't know by now, I think. So

one of the other big adventures you take on phase three

are two multiple day cross countries. Can you tell us about

those?

Yeah, sure. So there's two cross countries, like you said, uh, one is to

the US. And the other is to western Canada.

So the idea is we want you to get some experience

in US. Flying. Similar, but slightly

different ATC, but, uh, they want you to have some

experience in that, and they want you to have some experience flying in

the mountains. The mountains in Canada, there's no

difference in terms of the actual procedures, but you

do have a bunch of granite around that you want to avoid.

So they want to send you out there with an instructor

and give you some time to really, uh, get comfortable

flying in slightly more

dangerous, uh, locations. So,

for my first cross country, we ended up doing the US. Cross

country first, and we went down to, uh,

Minnesota, Nebraska, and Missouri.

So we started the first day, flew down to St. Louis with

a stop in Rochester, Minnesota, to clear customs.

And then the second day, we flew, uh,

into Minneapolis, uh, Minnesota. Uh, at the end of

the day, that was really cool. Very busy

airspace. Uh, and then on the third day, we went

through Duluth, Minnesota, and then,

uh, back into Portage.

Okay, so how did you find that experience?

It was very cool. So, uh, it's basically normally

what happens when you have a full course of four people,

two students and instructor in each airplane. So

one student is flying, the instructor is in the right

seat, and then the second student is in the back

doing the comms. So talking to ATC,

requesting clearances and all that kind of stuff. So

the original plan was I was going to be in the backseat at the beginning, and

then fly the second leg. There was a little bit of shuffling,

and, uh, if, uh, my partner's listening, he's probably

laughing about this, but I ended up flying the first

leg, and I wasn't totally prepared for

that because I hadn't done the planning for that leg. But

I ended up flying the first leg into the US. And

figuring out how to clear customs, uh, in Rochester,

Minnesota. And it was an experience I've never done that

before. When I was flying the Alpha jet, I would fly in on Air

Canada and meet the airplane wherever it was.

Oh, wow.

So this was really my first time being on board

or being in charge of a military aircraft and landing

to clear customs. And it was a super cool experience.

Yeah, those trips are really very formative.

A lot of learning takes place on those. I would say

that in those three days, you probably learn as much as, like,

ten other flights back out of Portage. You're just

doing so much, and you're seeing so many new things. What do you think

is, like, the biggest thing you learned flying into the States?

So, I mean, really, it's kind of like we said earlier with,

uh, the simulator missions, it's continuity. So

you fly three, four days in a row. You do

three or four approaches every single day, and

maybe two touch and goes, or a touch and go and a

final landing. So the amount of experience that

you get in that three day period, you're doing

nine approaches, you're doing probably six to

eight landings. All of that together will

combine to make you just such a better pilot.

Aside from, okay, now you're talking to us, uh,

ATC. Sometimes they talk

extremely fast. Procedures are slightly

different, but nothing too crazy.

Uh, just a couple of things you have to learn before you go down there.

Yeah, exactly. And they teach you all of it and then test you on

it before you go do it. Mhm, but it was such a cool experience

to listen to the ATC, to do all

of these approaches. And the approaches themselves

are exactly the same as what we do here in Canada. So you're

really getting the same experience and the same ability

that you're going to have to do on your final test.

Yeah, it's really kind of like the hero's quest where you go

out and prove yourself and you come back a different

person.

Almost exactly, yeah. So then the second cross

country is the, uh, western Canadian cross country. The

design is get you out in the mountains and get you some mountain

experience. So we left here, flew through Medicine

Hat, and then, uh, I did an approach in Castlegar, BC.

Which was super cool, like you're

doing an approach through a valley, you have

10,000 foot mountains on either side of you,

so you really have to pay attention to what you're doing. There's a lot

of autopilot that we're using at that point.

So the autopilot is going to do what the autopilot

is going to do, but if it does something that you don't expect, you got

to be ready to take control. So just because the plane's flying

itself doesn't mean you're not paying attention. So

Castlegar was really cool. Then we went into Calgary.

Can I ask you a question about Castlegar?

Yeah, go for it.

Were you there, uh, in good weather or was there clouds?

No, it was pretty good weather, which was one of the only reasons why we did

it was because we could go down, do the approach. I

think we even did a touch and go that day and then

did, uh, what we call a spec vis departure. So

essentially, you have to climb to a certain altitude

visually in good weather before you can enter

cloud. And in doing so, that will kind of, quote

unquote guarantee you that you're not going to hit a

mountain as you're climbing out or going en

route. Uh, so we had the weather in order to do the spec

vis departure, which was great. It meant that I did do

a touch and go and was able to climb up and see the

mountains and go, okay, don't go over there because

that's going to hurt and the little King Air is

not going to win against the 10,000 foot mountain.

No, I did an approach into Castlegar, which we were only going to do

to the low approach because we did not have the weather.

And let me tell you, it is a weird, weird

feeling when you know there's mountains all around you and you're

in cloud and you just have this magenta line on your

GPS and you start descending and you're like, well. I

just trust that the GPS and the autopilot and

we're all in the right place and we know where we are and there's

nothing in these clouds. Like, it is a weird

feeling.

It is a very weird feeling. So after Calcigar,

we did Calgary for the night, mhm, and then after the next

day, we went to Comox Victoria. And then on the way back

from Victoria, we did Kamloops. And it was

exactly that. The weather was crap, the clouds

were right down to the ground. So my partner was

flying the approach. I was in the backseat, uh, and

I'm looking out the window going, man, I hope he knows what

he's doing because I have no control of this

situation and I can't see anything other than

cloud. And like you said, you're just diving through the cloud,

following the Magenta Line, hoping that things are going to work out.

They did. I didn't crash into a mountain and neither did my

partner. And, uh, back to Calgary for that night and then we came

home the following day.

That's an awesome trip for people listening, just to take a

second to think about the geography of that. You guys went

from Central Canada all the way to the west coast,

to the tip of the west coast and back, all in this

little King air and hitting all these spots along the way.

Think about what an adventure that is.

Yeah. 22,000ft going over the mountains. We flew

directly over top of Whistler. I actually have a

picture looking down on Whistler, and you can see the snow

and the ski runs and everything. And then leaving Victoria, we

were climbing up, I forget where we were, probably like 21,000ft

going eastbound and there was a cloud deck and you

could see Mount Baker, uh, down in the States

poking out through the top of the clouds. Wow, such

a cool experience.

Yeah, that's awesome, man.

Yeah, so cool.

So like we said, your graduation was on Friday.

I can still clearly remember getting my wings put on

my chest. And I remember that after I

marched back to the flight, I kept looking down at these wings,

like almost in shock that they were there.

It was kind of like, wow, I can't believe I have

wings. What was the feeling like when you had your pilot wings put

on your chest?

So there were nine of us that graduated last week.

Six from the Helo flight and three on my course.

So I actually happened to be the last person

among all nine of us to get my wings. So I had to

sit there and watch eight other people get their wings ahead of

me. And then when they called my name and I marched up

and my mom and my dad, my wife are there, my

in laws, my two brothers are all there waiting to

watch and watch me get my wings. It's

such an amazing feeling. Uh, such a relief at

the same time. Uh, the course is

short, but it's intense. And

getting to that finish line is such

an achievement and a relief when you get there and you

can finally, like, now I've got these wings on my chest.

It feels heavy, but, man, I'm so relaxed

right now. And then, exactly the same thing.

I got my wing stepped back, salute, and I start

marching off. And I did kind of peek down at it. I looked

at all my buddies, the, uh, eight of them standing there behind

me that all had their wings on already. And I'm like, man,

we did it. I can't believe we did it. This is

amazing.

Honestly, it'll rank as one of the best days of your

life. It's so memorable.

Absolutely.

Yeah. I hope that alone, hearing that alone

inspires some people to go for it because it's just such an

incredible thing. It's such a crazy thing to

achieve, and so much work goes into that point, and

then you're there.

Yeah. And for those listening, remember,

this was 16 years after I joined the

military, trying to join the military as a

pilot. I waited 16 years for this moment,

and just incredible, man. Incredible.

Yeah. That is something.

Yeah.

So now that you've graduated, can you let us know where

you've been posted?

Uh, yeah, so we found out the day before. I am posted

to Four Three Six Squadron in Trenton to fly

the CC 130 J model Hercules. It

was my number one choice, and I am so excited to

go do this, man.

That is so cool. What are you most excited for at

four? Three, six?

There's so many things, man. Like the travel. First

of all, they get to go to some really cool

places. The C 17 and the Polaris, they get to

travel, too. But when it's an airport that's too

small to take a C 17 or a Polaris, who

do you call? You call the herc? And in goes the J model

to drop off whatever you or pick up whatever you need. So

I'm so excited about the travel and the places that I'm going to get

to go. But for me, the big thing and the reason why I

pushed for a pilot transfer this late in my career

was because I wanted to be operational. I wanted to be,

I say near the pointy end. I know they're not pointy,

but I wanted to be near that tactical

doing things on the ground kind of deal without

having to be on the ground. I joined the Air Force for that's. Right.

It can get pretty pointy for the Air Force.

Yeah, absolutely. So I wanted to do something

operational, and I don't think there's anything

other than maybe flying a fighter jet. I don't think there's anything

quite as pointy in the Air Force as a, uh, J model

Hercules. So I'm so excited to go get to

do some of that tactical airlift,

dropping paratroopers, high, low level,

whatever, just to get into it, uh,

and really be operational. It's exciting. Yeah.

For listeners. We've done two shows that kind of relate to

this. One was with Sky Simpson on the C 130,

J Super Hercules. We also, for Remembrance

Day, interviewed Mike Cool about his time in Tactical

Airlift, which was at the time, on the H model Herc in Afghanistan.

And interviewing those two people really gained

me an appreciation for what that community does, how intense

some of the flying is, and just how cool it is.

Yeah. And I've listened to both those episodes again since I

got my selection, and it made me even more

excited to be able to go do this.

That's awesome.

Yeah.

What do you think will be the biggest challenge at four, three,

six?

As much as I'm going to love the travel, the travel is also going to be a

challenge.

Yeah.

Uh, I know a lot of the other folks that have come on the

podcast have talked about it. You're away a

bunch. There's no tactical airlift

into Trenton.

That's right.

It's all away with

that. It means I'm going to be away a lot. It's going to be a bit of

an adjustment for my family. We've talked about it.

I didn't really think about it until they,

you know, give me your selection choices. And then

we started looking at it and I went, oh, jeez. Other than

maybe search and rescue, there's no

job in air mobility where you're staying home

on a regular basis. Mhm, everything is away.

Auroras you go away for maybe a longer period of time, but

you're still away a bunch. Uh, J model C

17s. There's a lot of out and back trips, so there's

going to be a lot of time away and that's going to be tough on the

family. So I've listened to the spouses

episode and I took a lot of what was

said on there from the spouses that

you had. And I think that

taking some of those lessons learned will help ease the

pain of being away so much. But I really think that

that'll probably be the biggest challenge.

Yeah.

It's something that's really important to be aware of.

There's almost no multi engine

cockpit you can end up in that doesn't end up with quite a bit

of time away. SAR like you said,

sometimes you're home more, but at the same time, it comes with a very

challenging schedule. So you're home, but

your schedule is all over the place. You do a lot of standby, and a

search can come up where, hey, I'm going up

to Ekaluit for the next who

knows how long, weeks or whatever. So

that is definitely a tough part of flying in general.

Yep. Yeah, for sure.

What would you say was the single most helpful tool

that helped you succeed in flight training?

So, for me, I think the most helpful tool was

talking to other people, talking to the course ahead of

you to get some information, lessons learned

from them, things that they messed up and maybe can help

you not make the same mistakes. Talking to courses behind

you because there's a lot of knowledge in the building in

general, and maybe someone else can help you. Talking

to the hilo dudes next door, talking to the

instructors, talking to friends. So

one of the guys that was there and you've already interviewed him, Blake

McNaughton. Blake, um, is actually a friend of my

brother's. So when I got to Portage back in

January and I met Blake and he went, oh,

you're Scotty Harding. And I went, you're Blake McNaughton. And then we took

a picture together and sent it to my brother. Blake and I became

really good friends after that. And I remember a couple of

times sending Blake a message saying, hey man, I'm

really struggling with this. Form was the first

one on phase two. I had a bit of trouble

towards the end of my phase two with form, and he called me

instantly and said, hey man, how's it

going? Here's some tips and tricks that might

help. But really just talked me down, gave me a

little bit of confidence, like, hey man, you've made it

this far, you can do this. But also imparted some

wisdom in the sense of, here's some ways that you

can get through what you're doing. And he did it again.

Uh, when I was flying night flights, I struggled a

bit on the night flying. And he

called and said, hey man, here's some things that you can

think, uh, know, he sent me a couple videos of him

flying nights. So Blake's my

example of a really good person to talk to,

but we all have those kind of people. And I think learning from

others and talking to other people was, for me, probably

the biggest tool to success on phase

three and in flight training in general, being able to learn

from other people and take their knowledge

and apply it to your training. Yeah.

No person is an island, and if you try to get

through flight training alone, you might be able to, but

it's going to be a lot harder. It's going to be a lot more stressful, and you're giving

yourself a lot of unnecessary pain. I have so many

mentors I can think of that, uh, have helped me get

through really difficult times, either in training or operational.

Flying could be just when you need advice

on leadership. As pilots, we get all of

our training on leadership through mentorship.

Ah.

Um, we don't get very much formal leadership

training. There's just so many things that you need to rely

on other people to help you learn and get through.

Yeah, exactly.

I also think it's important to acknowledge that you did have

a couple spots where you struggled and it's important for people to

hear. You will have times where you struggle in flight training.

You will have flights that you fail. That doesn't mean

that your time is over. It's just time

to learn from it and reattack.

Absolutely. We've talked about mental

resiliency before and I know that, uh, came up on a couple of

your podcasts that mental resiliency is

key because you're going to struggle. I know one

dude who graduated a few courses ago

who never had any failures throughout his entire

training. And good for him, great on

him, but he's the outlier

mhm everybody else at some point is going to struggle with

something. Uh, and maybe it's hands and feet for me,

like it was on form and mineral landings

was the other thing. And night flying and okay,

there was a couple of things, but, uh, it

was critical to have that mental resiliency. And I

won't lie, I struggled with it when I

failed. Uh, my pretest, uh, for

Clearhood Phase, I did some ed, some extra

dual for it. Uh, and it wasn't

sufficient. And I was really

angry. Not at my instructor. He didn't do

anything wrong. He's just evaluating what I'm

doing as a student. I was angry at me

because I knew I could do this and I still

struggled. Um, and so for, uh,

me at that point, I was breaking down

and I went back to what I know best and

went, I'm just going to go for a run. And it was

chilly outside, but not cold. And I just went for a

run. And I think for the first, like 600 meters,

I was running like three minutes and 30

seconds/km, which is ridiculous. That ended

after about 600 meters. But the whole point was I got

out there and I released a lot of that stress and

a lot of that anxiety and anger. And that

for me, that's one of my outlets. Uh, you need

to know what that outlet is because you're going to struggle

and you need to know how to make it through that struggle.

Yeah. I would also say it's probably good to

struggle while you're in flight training. You mentioned some

people make it through without failures. I was

lucky enough to be someone who made it through without failures,

but I think that actually set me up

poorly to I didn't learn how to deal with

adversity until I was on an operational squadron. And

that's a hard place to learn that.

Yeah. Because you're going to be maybe not fail, uh, an

upgrade flight or something, but you're going to be put in a

situation that is going to have some

adversity to it 100%. And if you

haven't had a chance to work through some of those demons

already, then that could be detrimental

to your performance. So not suggesting that

anybody should try and fail a flight so they could feel adversity, no,

but it is a good experience to

have.

Yeah, I think what we're saying is embrace it as a learning experience.

Absolutely.

If you do run into that situation and I did personally, like

all cards on the table, I did need some extra training on

one of my upgrades on the Aurora, and it was a hard pill to

swallow, and I really wish that I had had to learn that

lesson earlier. I did learn it. I had great mentorship at

the time and I got through it, but it's tough. So hopefully

you learn those lessons earlier and you move on

and you just keep on, uh, with

learning and growing.

Yeah, exactly.

Okay, we are down to our last three questions

already. They're going to be our standard last three,

but we're going to kind of tailor them to your flight training

experience. So what was the most important thing

you did to keep yourself ready to succeed in flight training?

So studying, for sure, staying in the books,

like I said, for phase three, the rules and

regs and being able to understand and apply them

was huge. So just reading the book once

wasn't good enough. So really getting in the books

and getting back in the books. So you study

a bunch for the simulator phase, and then you just go do a

bunch of VFR flying for a while and then you're back in the

simulator to do IFR. Well, you still need to know all those

IFR rules, so you got to get back in the books and restudy.

So studying was one of the big ones. Make sure you stay

in the books and stay current with what's going on, but then just

having that outlet as well. Make sure that you're

not always in the books. Make sure you're not always prepping for

flights. You have a way to relax and

separate your mind and relax your body.

Now that you're a qualified pilot, I'll ask you this. What do you think

makes a good pilot?

I think being humble, and I think some of your other

guests have said this, but being humble, being

willing to recognize your mistakes or recognize the

spots where you're going to struggle is critical. Because

if you go into it thinking that you're the

best thing since, uh, Maverick and you

think you can do everything better than everybody else, you're going to

struggle. And maybe it won't be in the cockpit, but it

will be personality based. So you need to

be humble enough to recognize that you

don't know everything, that you're not the best, and

maybe you are the best, but you need to be able to step back and go,

hey, I'm still willing to learn from whoever I'm

talking to. I think being a pilot, especially

in the RCAF, is a constant learning

experience. And if you're not willing to

continue to learn, then you're going to

miss it. So being humble to know your

shortcomings and make yourself better, yeah, I

like that.

And even you mentioned, even if you are the best, every course has a

top candidate. But like you said, there's still

so much to learn. Everyone has something to learn. And you'll see

people who are on squadron who've been

there, who've been in that community for decades, and they're still

learning. And they might learn something from you, even, that you bring through

from that you learn in flight training, some trick you've learned or

whatever everybody's constantly learning. So

even if you are like the top candidate of your course, you've still got

tons to learn.

Yeah, exactly.

You've been the senior course for a while now in the multi engine

section of the school. As the senior course now leaving the

school, if you ran into someone just arriving to start their flight

training, what advice would you give them?

Talk to the people ahead of you. Talk to the guys ahead of

you. Make sure you stay in contact with the guys that are

leaving the course that's behind. My

course hasn't even completed their clearhood test,

so they haven't even made it to that automation IFR

phase yet, which means when they get there, they're going to have all

these questions and I'm sorry, but we're not there

to answer them. So make sure you got contact with guys

and talk to the people ahead of you because they're going through all

the same struggles that you're about to go through. Um, when

we went into nights and I struggled, I

went and talked to the course ahead of me. Hey guys, what did you

do? How did you get through this part? Both

not sleep deprivation, but a little bit of

not being at the top of your game because you're flying off your

circadian rhythm. How did you get through that? How

did you adapt to not being able to see the

airport as well? Talk to the people ahead of you because they

know the struggles that you're going to go through and might have

ways around it. So if you're showing up in Portage right

now, talk to the people ahead of you. Yeah.

And also the people who have just finished a

course. You won't meet anyone who has been in the books as

much as those. Like, they've just worked as hard

as they possibly can to achieve this

crazy thing. So they're going to know their stuff.

Yeah, absolutely.

Okay, so Scott, I know that you're on leave today,

so I really appreciate you taking the time to drive to my

place from Winnipeg to do this interview. It's really cool to

check in with you and see how the next phase of your flight training

went. And who knows? I'd love to connect again

once you get some training under your belt at four three

six and just hear how things are going there too.

Yeah, absolutely. Brian? Yeah. You got my phone number. Give me a call. Okay,

happy to do it.

Awesome. All right, that's going to wrap up

our chat with Scott about phase three, multi

engine and life as a student. For our next

episode, we'll be doing a shorter episode featuring

Mike Baring's experiences being deployed for Op

impact over Christmas. Do you have any questions or comments

about anything you've heard? Or would you or someone you know make a great

guest for the show? Or is there a topic you'd love to see covered on

the show? Please send us an email at

thepilotprojectpodcast@gmail.com

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