Bryan: all right, we're ready for departure here on the Pilot Project podcast, the best source for stories and advice from the pilot of the RCAF. First up, joining me today from from Halifax is Greg Juurlink • Welcome to the show, Greg.

Greg: Hey, thanks for having me.

Bryan: Yeah, thanks for joining us. Greg joined the CF as a reservist infantry officer in 2001. He switched to the regular force as a pilot in 2005, getting his wings in 2008. He was then posted to 403 Squadron to fly the Ch 146 Griffon in Gagetown, New Brunswick. He was deployed to Afghanistan on Op Athena for ten months, flying close to 600 combat hours over 103 missions. Those missions were mainly escort attack and reconnaissance duties. He achieved his A category instructor rating and trained new instructors on the Griffon. He was posted a Joint Rescue Coordination Center in Halifax in 2019 to coordinate search and rescue missions. He has close to 3000 military flying hours. So what year was this in?

Greg: Okay, this would have been 2009.

Bryan: And this was in Afghanistan, right?

Greg: Afghanistan, yeah. We're all around Kandahar. Uh, we were busy, so we ended up being there for like, ten months. And there was another Roto that did nine months, so we were nine month Roto as well. But I was the Electronic Warfare officer as well, so I had a little bit of extra time just to do a handover. But we ended up flying a lot. It's a lot, a lot of flying. So it's busy. So I kept my journal here. Uh, I wrote in it every day. And actually, uh, like this time last year, just a couple of days ago, this one here, this is a couple of pages where, um, uh, I ended up getting shot down in a Griffon.

Bryan: No way.

Greg: We were the first ones to, uh, get shot in a Griffon.

Bryan: Wow. You had to land?

Greg: We did, yeah. So we were on a Chinook escort mission and, uh, I took this bullet, went right next to my leg by a couple of inches.

Bryan: Wow.

Greg: We ended up landing in this forward operating base and just one entry in red right here, that was when we didn't make the helicopter. We were able to recover that helicopter. Um, so we're like right back into it. It's crazy to think now it was the only way to do it, though. I wouldn't want it any other way. You got to get back on the horse and keep going, or else you go home. So I'm just going to flip to my Christmas stuff here.

Bryan: Did you have a family at home at the time?

Greg: I did, yeah. I had a really big family in Antigonish. Like big, big. So this would have been the first Christmas I wasn't with my family in Antigonish. I was probably 31 or 32 at the time, I think. So, um, yeah, so it was kind of significant that it's like, all right, this is the first Christmas I'm not at home, and I was, uh, flying combat operations in Afghanistan. Right. So a little bit of risk and stuff. I know Uh, it was hard for my family, too, right. Just going away to that environment, especially at that time. Afghanistan wasn't a good place at the time.

Bryan: Yeah, for sure.

Greg: So my family was, like, on edge as it was. But, man, uh, they sent a lot of gifts. I'll tell you, if anybody's listening to the podcast and they have any loved one or friend or anybody that's deployed, those gifts are just amazing to get. You feel isolated and stuff, and then you get this nice little connection to them. So we got a lot of packages. So, like, toilet, uh, paper was a big thing. We got chocolate and candy. And the great thing was, is that everybody got so much stuff that we had, like, a communal table where we would always meet in the morning. Kandahar was really big, and we had to drive around the airfield to get to the other side. So we only had so many little bands that we had. So we'd always meet at this table. And then if you got something that you didn't like, you leave it there so you could go and people would hang out there. So not only were we having our own Christmas presents, but we were sharing everybody else's, and we were sharing areas with other people, too. So, like, oh, I got extra rolls of toilet paper. Here you go, guys. Um, it was really interesting to experience that in an environment that was just everything was brown. I mean, if you had a green tree, it was brown from the dust on it. Right. But of all those gifts, I'll tell you, my Aunt Terry Pero, she sent me a Christmas wreath that she made out of fresh, like, uh, Balsam Fir tree or whatever it is. She put it all together and she sent it and it showed up in Afghanistan. And I opened this package. It's like, what is this? And that is the gift that stands out by far the most, because I put that in my tent. Um, the place smells terrible. But a little bit of pine tree in the tent, right? Just drying out enough that the scent from that, it just smelled like Christmas. And scent is such a powerful, um, reminder of places. And every Christmas I had before that, when I'm used to smelling, that would have been Antigonish at my own, um, place. Right. And so it was really nice to just get that smell in such a crazy place.

Bryan: Yeah. And to have something green, too. I know when I was in the desert, um, like you said, everything is brown. And you're just looking at shades of brown all day.

Greg: Now, when you came back to Canada, were you shocked by the green? Did you come back in the summer or the winter?

Bryan: The first time in the winter and the second time in the summer. But both times, yes. It was a total shock. Yeah.

Greg: All this green. It's crazy. Yeah.

Bryan: Uh, it was a really strange experience.

Greg: It's really weird. Isn't it strange? Yeah. So while we were there, the war doesn't stop at all, so we were certainly out doing missions and stuff still, although our more offensive operations had a pause. So all your troops out in the field and stuff were doing less patrolling. There were still patrols going on. And, um, then certainly for us, our mission that day ended up being a Chinook escort to take American General out to the foreign operating basis to visit some of the troops. And they would go out and thank the troops, feed them their Christmas dinner. Because everybody gets a Christmas dinner still, right? So we ended up doing an escort mission, uh, to a few Fobs with this general.

Bryan: Fobs or F-O-Bs are forward operating bases.

Greg: We ended up, uh, going to work at, like, lunchtime that day. We were briefing for our mission, which is what we called Walk the Dog, which is a Chinook escort. We just follow Chinook, and our, uh, role in that is attack you know, protection. The, uh, Chinook is the protected force. So our job is to put ourselves between the enemy and the protected force, and obviously to do whatever we can to neutralize, um, or prevent a target from touching the protected force. Right. So about 70% of our work was Chinook escort. So that's what we were doing that day. And we didn't love the job because it was kind of boring. We like more dynamic stuff like, you know, doing escort of foot patrols. That was always fun. Those, uh, were pretty dynamic missions. And then the other escort, any attack work, was always fun. There wasn't one on Christmas, though, of course, I brought a Christmas sweater. So I took the Christmas sweater and went flying. And then when we landed in the forward operating bases, we had time to, like we had to wait for the general. Like, we just stayed with the aircraft in case we had to have a quick call. We just stayed right there. So we were, like, taking some pictures. And my friend, uh, Craig Wiggins took this photo of me. It's been around a lot. A friend of mine and colleague, um, Steve Robertson, wrote a book about our deployment called, uh, Go for Shakedown. And this picture, he asked me if he could put this on the cover of his book. That's kind of cool. But this is really significant for me because it's the first Christmas that I wasn't in Antigonish just a really nice, um, sunset photo that, uh, just highlights the silhouette of the helicopter and myself and my rifle.

Bryan: So for the listeners. I'll put that on the website. You'll be able to find it in the show notes. We'll put a link in there to the photos and your friends book as well.

Greg: Yeah, perfect. All right. That's awesome. Yeah. So we ended up picking up a three star general and, uh, flying him up to a couple forward operating bases. Like I was saying, we ended up shutting down, and then he would go and serve meals to the troops. And keep in mind, this was canadian helicopters supporting an american three star general. So we were really proud about that. We were able to kind of come through. I mean, the americans certainly did an amazing job with their Chinooks and stuff, but it was really nice to be able to have them come and ask us for support and for us to be able to provide it. So it's definitely a feather in our cap, for sure. Anyway, so that's pretty much what we did. Then we ended up coming back, and it's so funny because we spent the day taking all these troops to go get these big meals, and in the forward operating bases, the food was amazing. Any time we could shut down there and get food, it was awesome. On that day, we just stayed with the helicopters and they had a meal for us when we got back a KAF and, uh, I'm sad to say, we got our christmas meal. It was a box lunch.

Bryan: Oh, no.

Greg: But it was still your turkey. Like, you could tell the people on base tried their best to make, like, a good christmas dinner, but it was probably the worst christmas dinner I ever had. But at the same time, it was one of the most memorable christmas dinners you're with, um, the people that you've been flying with day and day over the last couple of months in dangerous situations. And it was really nice because we had that at the very end of the day. So, uh, we could actually kind of relax a little bit and just talk about whatever was going on. Hey, what'd you get for christmas?

Bryan: How are you feeling at that point, being away, like, having that chance to slow down and think about christmas?

Greg: Yeah, it was really surreal. There was a lot of pride, right, about the job we were doing, so we were all happy to sacrifice to go and do that. And honestly, look, uh, I've been home for christmas for over 30 years in a row, so I couldn't really complain. I, um, was grateful for the people I was with. I loved the people that I was on deployment with. Some of my best friends are still from that deployment. It was a lot of work getting ready to go, and then it was a lot of work over there, so it was almost a two year commitment. You're with pretty amazing people at christmas. It felt pretty good. Yes. And then after that, I went and, uh, we had computer access at the time. We didn't have the technology that we have today. We had a little trailer. You got 35 minutes to go on and jump on the internet. And so I went in and I got on Skype, which was the big thing at the time. And, uh, Skyped my family, so I got to see my brothers, my nieces and nephews and all that stuff. So I really thought a lot about what it would have been like for people during World War II, the Korean war, all the other deployments that Canadians have had, like, all over the world, peacekeeping or before we would have had this type of technology. Here I was in Afghanistan. I got a pretty square meal. It was probably the worst Christmas meal I've ever had. But, uh, my mom is a really good cook too. So maybe I was spoiled, but at the same time, I had a really good meal, and I had an air conditioned tent, and I had a really good company, and we were doing a good mission. So I'll say this, um, you're talking to pilots about their deployments and stuff like that, and I will tell you, without a doubt, it is way harder on the families. Probably at Christmas time as well. Like you heard about my day, it's pretty much the same. I got up, I got to hang up with some great people. I got to burn a whole bunch of jet fuel, and, uh, a lot of distraction. Whereas people at home, it's the same, except you're not there for the first time. And I don't know what that feels like. I can imagine that it would be difficult, because I know exactly what's going on. I have all the int reports. I know what the threats are. I know what we've trained to do to make sure that the risk is acceptable. Right. I knew that I could get through this safe, and I had an armored seat and all that stuff. And I used to think of it as just small bullets. But from people back home. They have no military education for the most part. Like, my family had none. And all they know is, like, you're in this place on the other side of the world where there's like, really bad people finding all kinds of ways to kill people and trying to kill people, including the people that they love. Right? So, yeah, that must have been really difficult on them, I would think. I haven't talked to them about it, though. But I just looked at another note here, too. It's really interesting, because when we were at Kandahar, it was always fighter jets taking off and landing and helicopters. I could tell the difference between an F 16, an F 18, a drone, even some of the drones. You could tell difference between a Reaper and, like, uh, Predator, you know, a chinook and blackhawk. You know, the sounds of all the different ones. when we were shut down out at the forward operating Base on Christmas, I heard dogs barking in the distance and it was so surreal. It's like I haven't heard a dog in like, • forever. A dog sounds the same in Afghanistan as it does in Iraq, as it does in Mali, as it does in Antigonish, as it does in Saskatchewan. Right. That is what a dog sounds like, period. And I hadn't heard a dog until that point, which is Christmas Day. So it was just that silence that was missing in my life for sure. So I got some of that on Christmas. It's just really a big reward.

Bryan: Absolutely. Before we go, uh, the floor is yours if there's anything you want to put out there.

Greg: Yeah, so I love just getting the information out there about my deployment to Afghanistan and being a pilot in the Air Force in general. I think it's a great job. I love talking to people about it. If anybody's interested in myself, I did start an Instagram last year, which is supposed to be mostly just pilot kind of stuff, and it started out with my deployment stuff. You can search me on Instagram. It's just

Greg. G-R-E-G Juurlink. J-U-U-R-L-I-N-K. So follow, like, whatever.

Bryan: Well, hey, man, thanks so much for taking the time today to do this
interview. I appreciate it and it's a great story. Thanks for sharing.

Greg: Yeah, thank you for having me. I appreciate it.

Bryan: Okay, so next, joining me, also from Halifax, is Rob Truscott. Thanks for being here today, Rob.

Rob: It's good to be here.

Bryan: Yeah, absolutely. So before we get into your story, we'll just go through your bio quickly. Rob joined the CAF in March 1990 and received his Air Navigator wings in 1992. He was posted to 443 • • Squadron in Victoria, British Columbia, on a Ch 124 Seaking. He then had various postings to 406 Squadron and 423 Squadron in Shearwater Nova Scotia. During the next 20 years, accumulating around 2800 flying hours on the Sea King. He deployed to Afghanistan in late December 2008 until July 2009 to the NATO Regional Command South Team. He was posted to the Joint Personal Support unit in Edmonton after cancer diagnosis while working as a staff officer at Joint Task Force North in Yellowknife. Rob was medically released in April 21. OK, so Rob, you've, uh, got a story here about being on a ship at Christmas. Where were you guys for this story?

Rob: As you mentioned, I got my wings in 92, qualified on the Sea King in 1993, and then, uh, we were on our way back from California, trip in, uh, November 1993, and the, uh, ships captain just we were coming in to Victoria Harbor, said, oh, by the way, in a couple of weeks we're leaving for Haiti. And so what happened in Summer in Haiti? Well the elected president had been turfed by his, uh, military leaders. And so there was a United Nations Embargo put in place. And, uh, so we did a whole bunch of pre-deployment training, about two weeks worth. And late November off, we were on HMCS Provider, heading for the Panama Canal. So our missions were mostly part of the United Nations Embargo, uh, surface surveillance. We were basically at night making sure ships weren't trying to sneak, uh, in. So we'd be checking out shipping, see who they were, trying to make sure they weren't trying to just sneak into Haiti, that kind of thing. We were doing things like sending off infrared video VHS. Back then, uh, we would record the VHS, uh, video images, and, uh, the infrared did things like show ships how much fuel they had in their tanks and things like that. So we were asked if we were able to make sure we always looked at fluid levels if we went beside a ship at night. We asked why? And they said, well, because if you do a pass on the way in, then do a pass on the way out, we know if they offloaded a bunch of their ships fuel, that's something they can say, hey, was there someone trying to • sneak fuel? And things like that. So that basically led us up to being at sea over the Christmas period. And this was, as I said, 1993, so • • • the satellite and email communications, uh, deployed folks have nowadays didn't exist. Mail run was the most important thing. So Christmas Eve, my crew, we were tasked to head to Kingston, Jamaica. We had set up a little logistics site there to pick up essentially what was our first mail pickup of the deployment.

Bryan: And so how long have you guys been, uh, cruising by then?

Rob: We'd done one stop in Jamaica previous to that, but other than that, we've been at the sea for a month. Being a supply ship, you can go a lot longer without worrying about getting a tank of gas or anything. So the 29th, the ship was operating mostly the southern part of the claw of Haiti, which, when you look at the map, you'll see Cuba, looks like, uh, a whale, then going to this big claw that is Haiti, where it has these upper, lower, uh, pieces. And we were operating more on the southern, uh, end of the windward passage there. So it was about 100 miles to, uh, Kingston, Jamaica. So we'd, uh, fly in off the ship from there, we would go in it's Kingston, Jamaica. Nobody's in a hurry. So you shut down, try to try and get some gas while you try to find the guy who's got your mail. Then we, uh, managed to work our way into getting all these bags of mail, which was just blue bags that were, uh, we had about more than 50 of them there 20 pounds apiece or so just kept firing them in the back of the aircraft. This was my first big deployment, my first Christmas after being qualified. So, um, this was the first time in my military career I was doing what I had been trained to do, which was take a helicopter and go to sea, which, um, is kind of interesting. I was young, single, rat, so it's kind of neat to be the guy who was helping because I know a lot of the guys. That was my first long deployment. So you had a lot of guys who this was when you got somewhere, you went and found a payphone and stood in line for a pay phone. So you start to understand what those Christmas packages really meant to a lot of people because I didn't have the wife and kids at home like they did. That's kind of a neat thing. So when we're heading back, we've got this probably 1500 pounds of mail in the back of the helicopter and, uh, we're on our way back. The weather was, uh, always really, uh, warm, the night time lows, 27 degrees. So we would climb up with the Sea King so you'd head for a few thousand feet and try to get the temperature down a little bit. Plus that, uh, would get you better radio columns with the ship. The ship was HMCS Provider. It's a nice old supply ship, I can't remember which AESOP we had, but I know there was a Santa Claus hat.

Bryan: An AESOP is an airborne electronic sensor operator.

Rob: What he did is he basically just sort of held it over his helmet and we sat and sat in the back door as we flew around the ship a few times before we landed. And then, uh, usually when you have something like that, you'd wait till you shut the aircraft down, move it into the hangar before having people unload it. But people were so excited, there was like a lineup of helpers that they basically just said, yeah, we'll just unload first. And, uh, so they basically daisy chained all these bags out of the back of the aircraft in about a minute and a half. Then we did our fuel shut down and, uh, all that stuff. It was just a fun flight. And then, uh, kind of took things easier over the Christmas period, even though we were off Haiti. So there was, uh, some flying on Christmas Day for the operation and stuff like that.

Bryan: Where, uh, would you normally have spent Christmas if you had not been on the ship?

Rob: I hadn't been on the ship. I probably would have, uh, went, uh, back to my parents'farm in Central Interior BC.

Bryan: was being away like that, was it a big thing for you?

Rob: You take it astride. Because, as I said, this is also my first Christmas qualified to do the job I joined the military to do. So there's that excitement of this is what I spent almost three years training for. I'm doing it now. So that Christmas at the time, it wasn't a big deal.

Bryan: Well, that's awesome. That must have been quite an experience to be out there and uh, cool chance to get into Jamaica, uh, for Christmas. Was that Christmas Eve you're doing that?

Rob: We flew in Christmas Eve and then we actually the ship went in for a port visit, uh, for New Year's and did New Year's, uh, in Kingston.

Bryan: And that must have been great.

Rob: It was entertaining.

Bryan: That's awesome. Rob, thanks so much for sharing your story. That was great. And, uh, thanks so much for just taking the time to be here today. That means a lot. Thank you.

Rob: Anytime. And any other things I can do to help, you know I'm here for it.

Bryan: Yeah, absolutely. Thank you. Man for this next segment, I had the guest audio improperly adjusted for the first 20 or 30 seconds. Please be patient. It improves. So the next guest I have is my mom. I thought it was a good chance to kind of have her share her story of what it was like to have her son deployed at Christmas. We've talked with a couple of guests about what it was like to be away, but there's another story to be told about what it's like to be at home. So welcome to the show, Mum. Thanks for taking the time to do this.

Diana: No problem, Bryan.

Bryan: so, yes. What was it like for you guys, uh, when you found out that I was going to go away and fly in the Middle East?

Diana: It was pretty scary. We, um, don't really ever know what's going on over there or what you're doing. We have some clue because of, ah, the type of plane that you're flying, but we don't know what dangers are involved and, uh, what your missions are and so on. So, uh, I would say I was probably worried all of the time.

Bryan: Oh, wow.

Diana: Yeah.

Bryan: What was that like? How did you get through that?

Diana: Well, a lot of prayer. We prayed for you a lot. I think also the way I dealt with it was by kind of putting it on the shelf, which sounds kind of weird, but I, um, had to be able to completely separate myself from sometimes even thinking about it. So, uh, when it's beyond your control, there's nothing you can do about it. Yeah. I had to find a way of not worrying all the time. And on the flip side of all that, we're really proud of you, too. Well, of course, we still are, but proud of you for going over there and doing what you were doing and, um, that you were a pilot and that you succeeded in what you wanted to do. So there was also that consideration. And then your dad also reminded me when we were talking earlier that at that time, Cirillo had been killed in October at, uh, the Ottawa Monument. And military members were being told not to wear their uniforms. Military families just kind of kept it quiet. If they had family in the military, it was like nobody really knew what was going on.

Bryan: Yeah, it was a weird time.

Diana: It really was.

Bryan: There was Corporal Nathan Cirillo and Warren Officer Patrice Vincent was run over in Quebec as well.

Diana: It just at the time, nobody knew if these things were connected, uh, what was going on. So there are those concerns, too.

Bryan: We got there in, uh, late October, and time goes by, and it started to come close to Christmas. What was that like?

Diana: It was hard, for sure. We really missed you, but you were a newlywed, and you had Melissa waiting for you at home in Nova Scotia. So we actually got more news from Melissa than we did from you. But we understood that, um, you would want to talk to your wife and be in regular contact with her. But it was great because we have a really good relationship with her, and, um, she always let us know what was going on and how you were doing. So in that respect, it was really good.

Bryan: We were trying to remember earlier what you guys sent in packages. Can you remember what was sent?

Diana: Yeah, I know I sent you homemade Christmas cookies, and I'm sure that I would have sent you a chocolate letter, which is a Dutch tradition. Your initial in chocolate.

Bryan: I remember Melissa sent me pajamas.

Diana: Oh, did she?

Bryan: Because that's a tradition on Christmas Eve for us. Um, did you guys have a big dinner that year?

Diana: Uh, well, we probably would have had a turkey because I would have made one anyway. It was hard to have you away, but it was particularly hard to have you overseas, especially at that time of year. We, uh, were concerned about how you would be, too, being away from the family and being away from Melissa.

Bryan: Yeah, it was definitely hard for me. It was lonely that day, for sure. I was with a lot of great people, which made it easier. I had some really good friends that I was deployed with. But I remember Melissa sent me a package and a card, and I sat down. I, uh, had the card for a while, but I saved it for that day. And, you know, uh, I felt pretty emotional, I think, reading that card and knowing that it was my first Christmas married and that I was away and knowing that you guys would be doing all the things that we usually do at Christmas and that I couldn't be part of. It was tough, but you kind of just let the day go by. And I know we flew on Christmas. I can't remember if it was Christmas Eve or Christmas Day. And, uh, the funny thing was, we were on our way back from the mission. It was nighttime, and all of a sudden, our commanding. Officer. He had come with us for the flight. And you hear him come on the intercom from the galley, and he says, Crew, this is a co in the galley. Uh, we've got a stowaway back here. OH HO HO HO HO! • • • Merry Christmas. And he comes up through the plane dressed as Santa Claus, uh, giving us all presents. And he had brought up a bottle of nonalcoholic wine. And so we all had a toast on the way home.

Diana: That's funny.

Bryan: That was kind of fun, too. So we did something.

Diana: Yes.

Bryan: And of course, we had Muriel Davidson sent us cards. Jim and Julie McFarlane sent me cards. So many family and friends had sent us stuff. And that was really nice to feel that support. We put them up on the wall in the hallway so that everybody could kind of share them.

Diana: Nice.

Bryan: So it was nice. It was hard to be there, but it was also kind of special in its own way to be there doing something and trying to, uh, help people in Iraq.

Diana: I also remember that you had, uh, to pay some sort of a tax with getting those cookies that you weren't allowed to eat them all yourself.

Bryan: Yes, I think it was, uh, the Ops tax because you get your mail at Ops. And, uh, I think I was so excited I opened it there, which was maybe a mistake, but no, I shared it. I shared some with the Ops guys, too.

Diana: Did you maybe ask us for thermal socks or something? You hadn't brought enough warm clothes with you?

Bryan: I definitely did not bring enough warm clothes because I thought, hey, I'm going to the desert. I just need shorts and T shirts. And I brought one pair of jeans and one thin sweater. And of course, at Christmas, it goes down to below ten, sometimes near zero. So I was freezing most of the time. I know Muriel Davidson sent me some nice merino wool socks.

Diana: Oh, and did we send you Tim Hortons coffee?

Bryan: Oh, man. I think it's hard to remember. There was so much stuff that came in that's kind of a classic. You get these packages from Canada, not just even from your family. We all had maple syrup that somebody sent hundreds of these little bottles of maple syrup.

Diana: what did you do with it? Just drink it out of the bottle?

Bryan: Most people just sort of left it out for whoever wanted it. But sometimes they would serve pancakes and stuff at the mess. So bring it there and use it there or whatever. And we all use a communal coffee pot at Ops. So I think any coffee we had would have gone there to just kind of share with everybody.

Diana: Nice. Anyway. It wasn't an easy time, that's for sure.

Bryan: Yeah, I know. And, uh, when I was talking with Greg earlier in the show, that's the thing we kind of realized as we spoke is, for us, we're busy. We're doing the same thing as every other day. We know what the risks are. We've already been doing it for a while. It's just another day. But for you guys, it's totally different at home on a day where you pause to think and you normally spend it with family, that it must have been quite difficult.

Diana: Yeah, it was.

Bryan: Well, thanks for sharing, Mum.

Diana: Uh, no problem.

Bryan: Thank you for taking the time to be on the show too. This is really cool.

Diana: No problem. I love you.

Bryan: I love you too. OK. Up next, joining us from PAX River, Maryland, is Jack Weslow. Jack, thanks for joining us.

Jack: How's it going, Bryan?

Bryan: Good, great. Thanks for taking the time to be here today. We'll talk first about Jack's bio to, uh, just learn where he's been and what he's done. Jack joined the RCAF in 2002 and got his wings in 2006. He's been posted to 408 Squadron in Edmonton, 1 Wing headquarters in Kingston, 450 Squadron in Pettawa, the Directorate of Air Requirements in Ottawa, and is currently attending the US Navy Test Pilot School in Pax River, Maryland. Jack has deployed to Afghanistan in the Griffon Mali on the Chinook, and has supported multiple domestic operations on both airframes accumulating 2400 hours. So, Jack, you're in Afghanistan for this story, right? And what year was that?

Jack: So, yeah, December 2008. We, uh, were deployed from 408 Squadron • down to Afghanistan. Group of folks we had been working together with for nearly two years at that point, and ended up in Afghanistan together in a relatively short notice deployment.

Bryan: Yeah, you said that It kind of took you guys by surprise, the timing of it, right?

Jack: The timing, yes. The deployment didn't take us by surprise. We know we were slated to go to Afghanistan for over a year at this point, I think, but we were on a 30 day notice to move. And, uh, so late November Squadron had sent five or six aircraft on the road for various exercises and tasks. And my two ship that down in Fort Sill, Oklahoma, we are going to be supporting some JTAC training and doing some aerial gunnery. And Thanksgiving weekend in the United States, everything is closed, so there was no point in staying at Fort Sill. So we decided to head into Dallas for the weekend to, uh, go have some fun.

Bryan: Yeah, absolutely. Can you tell me what a JTAC is?

Jack: JTAC is Joint Terminal Air Controller. So person on the ground with a radio directing and guiding aircraft and air launched effects to, uh, have an effect on the ground to support troops.

Bryan: Awesome. So you guys were heading into Dallas, uh, Fort Worth for the weekend?

Jack: Yeah, heading into Dallas, Fort Worth for the weekend and got a call from my boss saying, yeah, hey, so our 30 days notice to move has been activated, more to follow. So everybody got pretty excited. And as you do, we had a good time. Everybody starts making phone calls to, uh, family and saying, hey, the flag has gone up, we're getting ready to go. Fast forward to the next day. And another call from the boss. He says, Pack your bags, leave the aircraft in, uh, Oklahoma, get on the first commercial flight home. We're leaving in 19 days. So 30 days went out the window and so did Christmas at home, unfortunately.

Bryan: So where would you have been, uh, that Christmas? Where were you planning on being?

Jack: I would have been home with my family in Edmonton.

Bryan: Were you single at the time, or no.

Jack: Engaged. Uh, not married, but all my family is in Ontario. I was born and raised in southern Ontario, but living in Edmonton for three years at that point. Nearly three years at that point.

Bryan: Was that a big surprise for your fiance? I'm assuming that's your wife now.

Jack: Yes, my wife now was it a surprise. Uh, I think at this point, I'd already been working at a 408 squadron for two years. The inevitable changes and variability of military schedules had already started to become normal. So when the, hey, we're going Afghanistan, we know we're going to Afghanistan. Oh, by the way, I'm going to Afghanistan in 19 days, came, uh, through. I don't think she was truly surprised, but it was November 26 or 27th when we finally got the call. So we were starting to hope that with a 30 day notice to move, we were actually going to get Christmas at home. But, uh, the forces, uh, had a different plan and we, uh, got moving a little bit faster. Good thing was we got into Afghanistan December. I think we landed December 19. It, uh, was the day we walked off the Herc at night in, uh, Canada. And then we had our first Griffon flying, I think four days later. I think it was Christmas Eve when we got the first Griffon flying in Afghanistan.

Bryan: Were you on that Christmas Eve flight?

Jack: No, at the time I was, uh, just the first officer. So it was a couple of maintenance test pilots that just did a quick loop. Stayed very close to Kandahar, as far as I recall. And then my first flight in Afghanistan was the 28 December. And we did a whole bunch of local, uh, familiarization trips, refreshed our gunnery skills calls, made sure our comms were, uh, as tight as we could make them with the experience that we had at the time.

Bryan: Yeah, because you guys were in for a steep learning curve. Right?

Jack: We were the first group deployed with the newer set of skills for what we ended up calling Close Combat Attack, which was heavily modeled on the United States Marine Corps Aerial Gunnery Tactics. Because they flew at the time, they had flown November Huey, they were now flying Yankee Hueys. And the Griffon is similar enough that we could borrow heavily from their experience and their procedures. Uh, and we went forward from there it worked out well. Uh, but we were the first ones to actually go and fly it, live in Afghanistan and sort of validate the learning.

Bryan: That's awesome. So what did that Christmas end up looking like for you?

Jack: So that Christmas was interesting. We, um, had a sort of a Minimum Manning Day, had a nice barbecue, bit of a sports day, some friendly competition within the detachment, and that was CHFA • So Canadian Helicopter Force Afghanistan. And then that evening, the TFA Task Force in Afghanistan had put on a dinner, uh, for everybody who was in Kandahar at that time. And the Chief of Defense Staff had flown into Afghanistan in order to, uh, attend the dinner as well, which was pretty interesting. That was, uh, General Walt Natynczyk • • at the time.

Bryan: Yeah, Uncle Walt.

Jack: Uncle Walt, as he was so fondly remembered. But, yeah, he was dedicated to the troops and he was going to be there for Christmas. If we were there for Christmas, he was there too. So, uh, that was neat thing to see.

Bryan: Yeah.

Jack: So that evening, we're having a Christmas dinner and at, uh, one point, our paths crossed. I was there with, uh, a couple of other first officers and we had Colluded to wear the most tacky Hawaiian shirts that we could possibly find. And I had a Santa hat on. And our paths crossed for the General at one point. Uh, we snapped the picture with the four of us flanking him in the middle and me wearing my Santa hat. And of course, picture this. You've got four fresh faced guys still pretty pasty from a Canadian Winter Hawaiian shirts, pistol, holsters, rifles, slung over your shoulder, and General Natynczyk • • in the middle. And, uh, it was a funny picture at the time, and we thought that was great. And the following Christmas of 2009 were back in Canada. There are other rotations from 408 now out in Afghanistan, and the CDS's Christmas card comes out. And what is it but the four of us? flanking • General. Natynczyk • in Afghanistan from the year before.

Bryan: That's hilarious. And you guys had no idea who was going to use that?

Jack: No idea. Yeah, combat camera had been, had been floating around and taking pictures as they do, and it was just, uh, an entertaining picture. And then the next year, it was General Natynczyk's Christmas card, or at least one of the Christmas cards that came out.

Bryan: That's so funny. I'll, uh, get you to send me a copy of that if you have a digital copy and I can put it up in the show notes.

Jack: I reached out to some buddies of mine and they actually still had a copy of it. And it's great. I'm not sure they would have chosen that one as a Christmas card if they'd known that we've been in theater for less than a week at that point, but it certainly made us laugh.

Bryan: Ah, absolutely. That's awesome. How was the, uh, food that Christmas?
What did you guys get?

Jack: As I recall, I think we got turkey or chicken and mashed potatoes, vegetables. Uh, it was a good approximation of a Christmas dinner, so it was kind of fun to share that with everybody. And again, the nice thing is because we had been pushed out the door as quickly as we could, as quickly as a squadron could manage. We had an aircraft flying and we got a good meal for Christmas. So a little bit of a consolation prize for spending, uh, Christmas in Afghanistan.

Bryan: Were you able to reach back and uh, talk to your fiance or your family?

Jack: Yeah, actually, um, it was interesting. We had access to a slow, uh, but reasonably reliable internet connection right in our uh, bed spaces, which was kind of a real luxury. I know we were very lucky in Canada how to get that, and I know the guys out in the FOBs didn't, but uh, we were able to reach back and I was able to chat with my wife through, uh, text at the time, but on an almost daily basis. So that was a real nice treat. And the older guys who are on our deployment, who had been in Bosnia, Kosovo, Haiti, all those older deployments, uh, this was their first experience with, that they had dealt with. Like, you get a satellite phone and you get 15 minutes on the phone a week and that's about it. And uh, for us to have an internet connection for ourselves that we get access to whenever we want was a bit of a game changer for them. It was interesting to have that perspective from people who had been deployed 20 years before.

Bryan: How did your family spend that Christmas?

Jack: My wife ended up flying home and spent with uh, family, so it was easier for her to travel to Ontario and uh, so yeah, she spent it with family back in Ontario.

Bryan: That's good that they were able to be together. And were they uh, handling it pretty well? Were they worried about you while you were there or were they feeling pretty good about everything?

Jack: My mom was the one who voiced the most concern because she's my mom, that's what she does. We had a long lead up to this. We'd known for nearly a year at this point that we were going, we just didn't know the exact date. So we had lots of time to prepare and we were getting routine news out of Afghanistan as well with what the Canadians, the army was already doing there. So we had a pretty good idea of what we were getting into.

Bryan: OK. That was similar to my experience. My mum was pretty concerned. Um, I felt pretty good about it. It's always interesting, uh, once you have a chance to sort of get used to the idea that you're going there and you start focusing on the job. I think it's a lot harder for the people at home than it is for us.

Jack: Uncertainty, um, is always hard to manage.

Bryan: Yes, absolutely. So thanks so much for sharing that story with us today. I really appreciate you taking the time to be here and, uh, for sharing that with us. So thank you. thanks so much for joining us for those Christmas stories. I really think it's great to hear about what life is like for deployed members at Christmas. Thanks again to our guests Greg, Rob, my mom, Diana and Jack. Our next episode in The New Year will focus on phase three flight training on the helicopter here in Southport, Manitoba. And, uh, that will be with my good friend Vic Weston. You don't want to miss it. If you'd like to send a message of support to deployed troops, or if you are deployed, I would like to see them. Trust me, it's heartwarming. Check out our show notes for a link to a Canada.ca • board. If you have any questions for me or for a pilot from any specific aircraft, you can send them to our email at thepilotprojectpodcast@gmail.com or to any of our socials at @podpilotproject. If you are a pilot or aircrew and you have sweet photos or videos, send them to our email with a short explanation in any accounts you would like tagged and we'll share them. from everyone here at the Pilot Project podcast. We wish you and your loved ones a safe and happy holiday. Merry Christmas. And Happy New Year. That's all for now. Thanks for listening. Keep the blue side up. See ya!