Episode 42: The Wing Commander: Commanding 15 Wing Moose Jaw and flying the CH-146 Griffon Part 2 - Dan Coutts
Alright. We're ready for departure here at the Pilot Project Podcast, the best source for stories and advice from the pilots of the RCAF. I'm your host, Brian Morrison, and we're sitting down today for part 2 of our chat with the current wing commander of 15 Wing Moose Jaw, colonel Dan Kootz. Dan, welcome back to the show, and thanks again for being here.
Dan:Yeah. Thank you for having me,
Bryan:Ryan. So we're gonna start by talking about Moose Jaw. 15 wing Moose Jaw plays a vital role in shaping the next generation of RCAF pilots. What are your top priorities as wing commander, and how do you ensure the wing remains at the forefront of pilot training excellence?
Dan:The priorities for the wing are 2. First is maximizing the efficacy of force generation. So that's, both the efficiency of what we do as a business and the effectiveness, to give that word efficacy. And and I, I hammer that fairly often with my folks and reinforce it. And the second is to prepare for the future of aircrew training.
Dan:So between those two priorities, you know, that does focus the staff, the schools, Combinants and their staff and the, and everybody working on the line on what we need to do. That's also led to a greater focus on measurement of what we're doing and trying to understand the things that are the main constraints to what we do in terms of capacity so that we can maximize the capacity and still deliver super high quality training. And, that's been an ongoing effort throughout the first year or so of my my tenure and, continue on to the end. What that allows us to do is look further ahead and project with more precision our throughput. And if we can do that better, we can do a better job of loading up those courses so we don't have people waiting between.
Dan:And And then ultimately informing for the CAF what our capacity is, when it comes to strategic intake of pilots so that we can shape that for the future. And then, you know, it's not me making those calls, but we can offer that data up to my boss, the commander of 2 Canadian Air Division, general Alexander, who can then have that consultation with the commander of the Air Force and commander of, of 1 CAT as well about and the deputy commander of the Air Force about what we should be looking at for a strategic input take for pilots, and how we're gonna manage that system, especially as we go through that sensitive transition. That's the that's the short version.
Bryan:Okay. So a lot of data collection sounds like for essentially making things as efficient as possible, trying to gain those efficiencies. Can you give me an example of some of the data you guys are collecting?
Dan:Well, one of the areas we wanted to focus on in Moose Jaw as the aircraft ages is the, availability rates of the harvards, but we also wanted to change how we scheduled. So the current commandant of 2 CFFTF, FilterCOT, has, brought into play a more open approach to scheduling where we set the framework based on the capacity we know we have. And then we highlight to the instructors that, you know, the schedule needs to be filled, but they can essentially bid is maybe not the right word, but I don't have a better one for it. They can they can bid on on on where they're going to do their particular remits, where they're gonna fly their time, knowing that, you know, ultimately it has to be filled. I think that is, you know, more than anything, in Moose Jaw, especially for 2CFFTS, changed, the landscape and made us a bit more effective.
Dan:The instructors, I I I get the sense they have a greater sense of agency over what we're doing and ownership. So it's not just about, you know, measuring the performance, and trying to hold people to account with that. It's actually the inverse. We're trying to I'm trying to measure the performance to understand better and then come up with ways like those good ideas, that, can come from, everybody who's actually doing the business about how we can improve things. You know?
Dan:We can't identify that we have a challenge until you get to the nitty gritty of it, see what that challenge precisely is. Once you do, then you can have a conversation about it, and you can trust the genius that's in the crowd to come up with those solutions. Because I'm certainly not gonna be the smart person that comes up with all the solutions. I I just don't have that. You know?
Dan:I I I I am not an expert on flight instruction in the harbor, and I have experts that that are super experienced in that that area. So if I come to them with a problem and say, look, we we recognize we have a particular issue here or there, and then we can actually tap into that genius and their creativity.
Bryan:Right. And I think that almost goes back to what we were talking about in the previous episode about kind of knowing who your people are and what their expertises are and kind of using that to the fullest.
Dan:Absolutely. And and the role of a wing commander, I see it as setting those conditions, helping to, give, you know, folks who are doing the business the resources, they need as much as possible. Not always perfect. You get you know, give them everything you wanna give them, but as as much as you can. And then, coaching and mentoring where you where you need to, but then also just getting out of the way and and letting them do the business once you've set up those parameters.
Dan:So that's why I focus so heavily on that number one priority saying it's maximizing the efficacy of our first generation, and and making sure people understand that. Because because once they understand that intent, then you step back and let them work towards it. They're gonna find new and innovative ways to get there. That scheduling is just one of them, but there's been many others as well over the past several years.
Bryan:For sure. And I feel like we're almost getting into this. So what would you say your current role is in shaping the future of RCAF pilots?
Dan:That would be the main one, just to set the conditions, and then, you know, help to coach and mentor with, my immediate subordinates. And then also just, you know, where where I can get out of the way and just and help, that servant leader mindset of, you know, inverting the hierarchical pyramid. And I I'm there to help solve the problems that can't be solved by my common ops, and they're there to solve the problems that can't be solved by their majors, and so on. That really helps, and then you're encouraging people to come to you with their problems that they can't solve locally. And if I can't fix it, I I go hire and shop it around to try and find the people who actually can help us resolve these particular issues, whether it's, you know, trying to procure winter flying boots so that we can keep flying the aircraft, safely during the wintertime, you know, while we're waiting for our longer term project to kick in.
Dan:You know, these are the kinds of things that end up being, the wing commander's purview to help find solutions for. And I view that as the main focus for me is is trying to help my folks, with the problems that they can't solve themselves at their level. Then you still have to lead from the front. You still have to be there and and talk to the students and and provide a bit of an example of what senior leadership in the Canadian Armed Forces, needs to look like and then have conversations with them about that as well.
Bryan:So, basically, it's a combination of kind of that leading at a almost a tactical level, but also, like you said, setting the conditions and then solving the big problems so that they can focus on meeting those conditions.
Dan:Yes. And I have to be careful to get out of the way because I've I've led at the tactical level. I've been a unit commander, but, I have unit commanders who are supposed to be doing that as well. So For sure. You know, that's another thing that a a wing commander has to be careful not to do is to get in their chili too much.
Bryan:Yeah. I can imagine that that could be a bit of a challenge. Just it's a fine line to walk, I would think.
Dan:Yes.
Bryan:Did it feel serendipitous to be back at 15 Wing Moose Jaw all those years later?
Dan:It's been a really neat experience. The town has changed. It's really improved, at least from my memories now. My memories are colored also by the stress of going through pilot training. Yeah.
Dan:I I I'm enjoying living here. I'm enjoying the people. Yeah. It's it's really great to be back. You know, this is one of the, few jobs that I asked for and actually got, over my career.
Dan:You know, there is and I have to give a lot of credit to my mentors and and my leaders. You know, they made a plan for me back in 2019, and, that pathway has actually, worked out, and we've seen it come to fruition. And so, you know, none of us yet to be in any of these positions without an entire army of people supporting us. So there's also that that aspect that I'm I'm very grateful for as well.
Bryan:For sure. You mentioned that you asked for that position. What made you want it?
Dan:I was on a course with then Colonel O'Reilly. I can't remember what year it was, but it was in the the mid teens, probably 2017 or 2018, and he was the wing commander. And he was describing the job to me, and and it just just seemed like a really cool job. You get to influence an entire generation of of pilots who are coming through training, but then you're also influencing an entire generation of instructors who will go back, to a large extent. A lot of them will go back to their communities or other units across the Air Force or other headquarters.
Dan:And, you know, you'll have had a chance to interact with them and and hopefully, help them at some point, with their jobs and their challenges. And that's a that's a pretty neat place to be. I think that's the same for every wing commander, but especially here. The ability to tap into that ab initio pipeline and talk to its students, that's a pretty neat experience. I love sitting down when I go to Portage and talk to the, the the students there or when I'm here and I I go into the mess and and say hello to a few folks.
Dan:I love sitting down with those brand new soon to be pilots and talking to them about their experiences and and just the excitement they have about this career and being in the Air Force, in spite of the challenge and stress we put them under. It's it's just so neat to to be exposed to that and refreshing and reinvigorating to be able to talk to people who are just starting out in their careers when I'm coming close to the end of mine. That's, that's a great aspect of this this opportunity to be able to lead here.
Bryan:Yeah. I've always said I thought that one of the coolest CEO jobs must be being, like, the school commandant or being the wing commander. Like you said, there's just so much energy and excitement at 2 and 3 CFFTS. Everybody is just so motivated to be there. They're achieving their dreams.
Bryan:It's just such a high energy positive space.
Dan:And learning how to fly is a lot of fun. At the end of the day, you know, being a pilot, I'm still learning how to fly over and over again, when I go fly and,
Bryan:for sure.
Dan:Trying to be better. It never stops. But when you first started out, yeah, it's it's it's really neat.
Bryan:And you have to remember that too. Right? Because it can be very stressful. It can be, overwhelming. You wanna perform, especially within the military flight training system.
Bryan:Everyone wants to be the best. Everyone wants to to go out there and crush it. And sometimes you have to remind yourself to look around, take a breath, and say, man, this is really cool.
Dan:I I do talk to each course as they come through phase 2 and try to remind them of that. I I ask them, you know, when you join, how many people actually got accepted to pilot the year you came in? And then compared to the population of Canada, 39 odd 1000000 people. And, you know, you're in a pretty special spot when you get accepted for pilot training in the Canadian Armed Forces. You're gonna get training second to none, and then you're gonna have these experiences and then, you know, set up for a career where you you're gonna have variety you know, for sure, there's gonna be boring days, but then there's also gonna be days where weird things happen that you never expected, and you have to rely on your training to carry you through.
Dan:And, that's, it's a really, invigorating career to have.
Bryan:And not just that, but you're also flying an aircraft that the average private pilot in Canada would give anything just for a ride in. Like, that would make their year to go up into Harvard.
Dan:Absolutely.
Bryan:And that's the platform that you're just conducting your training in every day. I think that's just so cool.
Dan:It is really neat. We had the the opportunity to fly the lieutenant governor of Saskatchewan, several months back. And, just to see the grin on his face, as he's coming out of the aircraft, yeah, it's it's special what we do, anywhere in the air force, but especially in the training the training system. You know, it it is really a privilege to be able to do a lot of the things that we get to do.
Bryan:Yeah. For sure. So in May 2024, a contract was awarded to Skyline Canada Limited Partnership for the future aircrew training program or FACT. In broad strokes, can you outline what will change in pilot training and how it will improve how the RCAF trains its pilots?
Dan:For sure. I think the biggest change or or what it'll do to improve the training for the RCF is really bring us into the 21st century as we look at those new training platforms and marry into the streams that allow us to fly all the advanced aircraft we're getting. You know, the f 35, the Poseidon, the multirole, aircraft, the, FutureVirt Glift, whatever that's going to look like. You know, there's so many changes coming to the Air Force, and we need to be able to train on platforms that are more representative of those, you know, capabilities that are coming on really quickly. And I think that's probably the the the key element to FAAC.
Dan:We're not gonna train. We we can it'll have some capacity to train a little bit more, but more importantly, it'll be training with aircraft that will set our students up for success, whether they're going into a multirole, aircraft, multi engine aircraft, fighters, going to instruct later on in other aircraft or flying helicopters. You know, it's gonna set them up for success. The the change, it should be a multiyear change. I'm not sure exactly what IOC is going to be.
Dan:It'll depend on, how the contractor, Skylon, brings on the aircraft.
Bryan:Could you explain what IOC is?
Dan:The initial operating capability, when we actually will start to use those aircraft in earnest for training. It's supposed to be around the 2029, 2020, 29 time frame. And, we just have to wait to see how that contract shakes out. We're still in early days as the Skyline team comes together and and starts to, you know, do the agreements for purchasing the aircraft and figure out how we're gonna put in the simulators, design all the buildings that need to come along with this program to support those new capabilities. So not sure exactly when that's gonna come online, but it's it's around that time frame.
Dan:In terms of what else changes, obviously, the aircraft change. On the, the Moose Jaw side, we'll see at least the proposal is, we'll see the Grobe turboprop come here. So the Grobes in portage right now that do primary flight training will be replaced by a turboprop, and then it mixes up the phases and, and streamlines things a little bit. So you'll start with, basic flight training on that and then move on to advanced flight training on the PC 21. And the Air Force is still working with the contractor to figure out exactly what those training plans look like, but that's the broad broad strokes concept.
Dan:Beyond that, folks will be selected off of the basic flight training to go helicopters, off the advanced flight training partway through. You go across to either, the future King Air or selected for instructing in fighters, high performance aircraft, if you will. And then, if you're going, again, multi engine, you go back to Portage La Prairie with 3 CFTS to fly the multi engine aircraft there, the King Air. And for the helicopter students, we'll combine the 2 fleets. It'll no longer be the 206 and the 146 outlaw.
Dan:It will be just the h c 135 helicopter that will be used for the entire phase 3 program for for rotary rotary wing training.
Bryan:So do I understand that from what you just said now, basic flight training is gonna be located in Moose Jaw? It'll just be the helicopters and multi engine here in Portage?
Dan:That that's the current plan. Yes. And then beyond that, there's also the training that happens in Winnipeg. So this is the other big training, big change for, the contract. You know, it's a big contract, $11,200,000,000, and they're combining what is currently 2 separate contracts here with NFTC and in Portage with CFTS, the Canadian flight training program out there, and as well, what's currently being delivered by the military at 42 squadron in Winnipeg with the axle and ASAP training.
Dan:That's all going to be part of FACT. So it's a massive program for the Air Force, a huge investment by the government and the Air Force for for training. And it's not just training, pilots now. It's also gonna involve the training we do in Winnipeg too.
Bryan:That's right. That's why it's called the aircrew training program, not the future pilot training plan. Like, this is for all aircrew.
Dan:It is for all aircrew. Yes.
Bryan:That'll be interesting. It'll be interesting to see what kind of efficiencies we can, get from that as well from kind of combining the efforts all into under 1, house.
Dan:Well and by working, you know, NFTC has been around since, I think, we we first started using it in earnest around 1999.
Bryan:A couple acronyms coming your way. NFTC is NATO flying training in Canada, and CFFTS is Canadian Forces Flying Training School.
Dan:There's been a lot of learning that's happened with that contract over time, and I think across D and D, we've learned how to do those contracts better. When we did the, the CFTS contract, with our partner, Canc Aero, in 3 CFTS in Southport, a Southport facility near Portage la Prairie. That also has been a really good learning experience. And the team that worked in Ottawa, across, you know, multiple d and d to report departments in the Air Force, and and other elements to CAF to put together this contract, they They learned from all those experiences, and pulled it all together. So it sounds like, a very promising contract that's gonna have flexibility built into it, and I think we're all very excited to see it come to come to fruition.
Dan:It's not gonna be without his headaches. You know, there's gonna be delays. Like, when the the contractor's talking about the the Gantt chart for this and the number of lines and and sub subprojects that they have to execute, it's it's mind boggling. Like, there is 1,000 upon 1,000 of tasks that need to be accomplished and accounted for. So there's gonna be challenges, but they put a good team in place to to make that all happen.
Bryan:Yeah. Of course. Any new plan, any new contract is gonna involve some growing pains and, things to work through when it's first implemented. Right? That's just that's just par for the course.
Dan:Absolutely. The one thing I really appreciate about what's been designed into this is from the very beginning, we're talking about, about our partners. You know, it's, it is right now, you know, the Canadian Armed Forces D and D with our our, public service employees and the contractors. That's how we make MTC and and CFTS happen. But in the future, we're explicitly saying that as even as they were signing this contract, this is about having a a partner in Skyline, that will be working close closely with the Air Force and DND to to deliver this effect for Canadians.
Bryan:Do we know how the fleet replacement will occur yet?
Dan:I don't know exactly how it will you know, the the theory, I guess, is we will, hopefully ramp up the capability over time. But Skyline is is currently still signing the contracts. I'm not sure if the ink's dry on some of them or or if they're about to sign
Bryan:Okay.
Dan:Other procurement contracts. So that that will depend on the delivery timeline for the different manufacturers that are out there for the the Grove and the Plattus and the AC 135 and the King Air, and then the simulators and then the buildings. Yep. So that that will all tie together. So I I can't really say exactly what that would look like, but theoretically, you'd want to, have a nice hand off between, the 2 or the 3 different programs, I guess, between future crew training, NFTC and CFTS.
Dan:You wanna have a smooth transition. So there's a lot of staff working in Winnipeg right now to try and plan that out, in addition to building all the new training plans that we're going to need with these new platforms, plan out how we're going to do that transition, and then working closely with the team in Ottawa, to make sure that we can stick handle this so that it is, as smooth as possible. But, also, we want to avoid capturing, students in the middle of that transition. So we wanna make sure we push as many people through as we can in the interim, and and minimize that bill in the middle so that somebody is not languishing as we're ramping down 1, standing up to the next. And and, you know, we wanna we wanna see people get in training at the beginning and get through in a in a timely fashion and get their wings.
Dan:And so that's one thing they're working really hard on right now to plan that out even though we don't have all the information, you know, we don't have perfect information about how it'll work. They're really working hard to to try and maximize, the efficiency of that program. So when we hand the students through that program, that nobody gets gets lost.
Bryan:Okay. That makes sense. And my next question was gonna be if there would be a cessation of training during this transition, but it sounds like you guys are hoping to avoid that.
Dan:Yeah. Hoping to avoid that. I'm not like, again, until we know all all the more details about how this unfolds, hard to say exactly how that's gonna work.
Bryan:For sure.
Dan:But we're also building the structures right now, both here at 15 Wing. And then with the project writ large, they're building the structures that'll help facilitate that in terms of just having the right staff, the right people, the right places to to make sure because we can't plan it all out perfectly ahead of time to constantly be in contact and discussions about how we're gonna fix these little problems as they pop up.
Bryan:Right on. So speaking of changes in pilot training, listeners probably have seen some articles recently that we retired our CT 155 Hawk trainer jet, which previously conducted all jet training leading up to the CF 18 Hornet. How are we filling this need currently and what kind of solutions are on the horizon for this capability gap?
Dan:For sure. When I mentioned the benefits of fact, I talked about the ability to train, in a way that's gonna set our students up for success on the, you know, 5th generation aircraft, quite frankly. Doesn't matter if you're flying the PA or the f 35. We're working on that same environment, that's fully interconnected and and much more complex, and data enabled than what we've seen in the past. So with that, the Hawk, it it did over time, it's a good platform for what it was, but it wasn't able to help even with the you know, if you look at the Hornet Extension Program, it doesn't necessarily give what you need over time, as the Hornet has evolved, you know, what the students need to jump straight into Hornet.
Dan:So that, you know, initially, when you had it, they're they're pretty close in in in in training capability. But as you've upgraded the Hornet over time, just as an example, it the the gap between what you learn on the Hawk and what you need to have to fly, one of the most advanced 4th gen fighters that's out there, has has grown. So that's one of the reasons. The other one is, you know, the the lifespan out of it is getting, you know, the avionics. We're we're not able to replicate what you can do in a modern air a modern fighter aircraft, and there's other challenges as well.
Dan:So they've been retired from flying, but we're still using them. They're being, moved to boarding for safe state to allow it to be used as a more modern trainer for the technicians because you still have things like, the mission computers, the HUDs up displays, things that don't exist on the tutor, training examples that they have right now. These are advanced systems and and airframe structures that now are are better able, to train our our new technicians as they enter the forces. So while it's retired from flying, we're still using it in the RCF, going forward, and it'll be a significant part of our training, I think, for our technicians for many years to come. I can't speak to future fighter and, fighter lead and trainer.
Dan:Sorry. There is a future fighter lead and trainer group in Ottawa who are designing that solution. And so I I frankly don't know what that will look like. I I know there's several options out there, but that'll be another massive program, and that's, that group who will have to, propose to command the Air Force and Treasury Board and the m n the MND what that looks like. In the meantime, we're still using the Eurojoint training program, down in Shepherd Air Force Base in the States where we have, several instructors and students, training down there, both, you know, primarily on the t 38 for the lead in training, but also a few on the t 6 and and more on the t 6 going forward.
Dan:We have people going through training there. That'll be one feeder, and then we're also looking at Italy. So with the, I think it's called the the I f the IFTF, the International Flight Training, School in Italy. We will be well, we do have one instructor there right now and I think another one under training that we'll be starting to send students there as well. So that'll be the other bridge flip element we use to to get folks from something like a t 6 to the Hornet, as we upgrade the Hornet and use that for the transition to the f 35.
Bryan:Okay. So, essentially, we've got interim solutions, and we're working on a permanent solution.
Dan:Absolutely.
Bryan:So your educational background is impressive with several master's degrees and a doctorate. How do you feel this educational background helps you to lead young pilots in the RCAF? And do you think further education should be a priority for pilots?
Dan:I'll address the the latter half of the question first. I I think it depends. You know, when I first became a major, I asked one of my mentors, you know, how they organize their time, how they they they are so effective at what they do. And he turned me on to, the 7 Habits, by Stephen Covey. And one thing that really resonated with me with the Stephen Covey framework was the need to sharpen the saw, not always invest in yourself.
Dan:So education is one way of doing that. I think there are multiple ways of doing that. What's incumbent upon us as professionals, whether you're in the military or in, you know, a professional pilot in the aerospace industry at large, we always need to be improving our skills one way or another. Some of that can be through other education because you build that toolbox. And for me, that's what it has been.
Dan:I have a fabulous toolbox that I can rely on to help me with my leadership, challenges. But there are other toolboxes out there. There's other things you can build. So it also has to be something you're passionate about. So I might I'd commend anybody if you're interested in education to go that route.
Dan:But There's other things that you could be interested in that can help you out equally as well in becoming, you know, really good in your profession, especially as a military professional, as a pilot. There's other things you can learn about that can really help you in those endeavors. And it's really about, you know, sharpening the saw and building out that toolbox, and and and that applies to leadership, just as much as learning how to fly and and, be an expert at what you do. So when it comes to my recommendation, do we need higher education for all pilots? Again, I don't think we need to make that any more than it already is.
Dan:There is benefit to, higher level education when it comes to critical thinking, the ability to resolve problems, and a benefit as well when you have diverse programs and people learn diverse things of having that diversity of mind. We get to complex problems in the Air Force that we need to solve, and we work best when we have people with multiple perspectives. So that's both lived experiences, and diversity of mind and the things we've learned, during our our careers and bringing those together. That's where the the the payoff really is. So encourage people to go out and seek those things they're really interested in and passionate about, learn about those things, become experts in, you know, not only in what we do as war fighters, but also in other areas and bring that back to the organization and, help strengthen the team with that diversity.
Bryan:That makes sense. And you're talking about bringing it back. I imagine part of the the educational the drive to gain that education was something you hoped you'd be able to pass on within the CAF?
Dan:Yeah. I think when I first started out on my journey with my first master's, it was a bit of that. You know, I learned about things, and I immediately saw how I could apply them even at the tactical level when I was a captain to my units that I was serving in at the time, and had conversations with other people about those different practices, you know, balance scorecard and and, you know, different forms of financial management and different ways of scoring and planning. You know, those were useful things. You know, it was also, you know, to set myself up for for other things.
Dan:If I had wanted to take a different course in my life, I'm not gonna, dismiss that as well. I think we all face those choices. Ultimately, as I got further along in my education and especially with my doctorate, you know, the the doctorate for me really was, a passionate focus on something I was interested in, but professionally relevant to me to understand how to help people do change better in the workplace, and especially in the military settings and the, you know, the defense settings that we have, understanding how to do that better as well. So, you know, for me, it was when I got to the highest end of my education. It it definitely intersected with my my military career and and trying to do a better job as a leader, you know, and and build up my toolset because I didn't feel I had that toolset, to really dig into culture change and help people do that.
Dan:So I needed to to study that more and ultimately build some more, tools that I could use.
Bryan:Speaking of culture change, your doctorate, as we mentioned, is in workplace culture change. A lot of people get their hackles up when they hear the words culture change. In your opinion, why is it something the RCIF needs to embrace?
Dan:I think everybody needs to embrace it because we're constantly evolving. So if I can offer 3 ways to look at culture, and the one that probably gets people's hackles up the most is when you think about culture as sort of that iceberg image of, you know, it's my psychology and and my personality. And if I say your culture needs to change, the implication is you need to change because you're insufficient or or not good. And I think that's why people get their hackles up. I think we can get around that with good dialogue about, you know, our need to always improve the context of our working environments and our geopolitical context changes.
Dan:So we need to change with it and adapt, and culture is part of that alongside things like structure, policy, and process, education, and training. Culture is one of those pillars you need to focus on if you're actually gonna have successful change. So I think we can address that particular, resistance you sometimes see. But the culture can also be about how we communicate. There's a lot of, you know, from an academic perspective, a lot of studies out there and research that highlights culture is also in how we communicate.
Dan:So that's a different lens. Then the 3rd lens I'd offer, culture is something performative. Culture is what we do. So with those 3 different viewpoints on culture, you know, we need to actually change sometimes our our schemas and our psychology or how we think about the world to a certain extent, or even just expose ourselves, for example, to other people's lived experience. But then we also have to change how we communicate to a certain extent So we're using language that's up to date with what we want to see in our workplaces and what we want professionalism to look like.
Dan:And then ultimately, what we do. You know, there's a performative aspect. Culture is all those things, both, seen and unseen, and then the artifacts we have surrounding what we think and feel, what we communicate, and what we do. There's those artifacts we visibly have out there that represent those things and enact those things in the workplace. So that's where I think people get their hackles up, and I think it's imperative as professionals that we embrace change.
Dan:And culture is just one of those aspects of change. So we you know, if you're a professional and you're going to senior positions in any industry, I think you're gonna have to be an expert, not just not maybe not an expert. You have to be a good solid practitioner when it comes to understanding some of the things about culture change. And then you're gonna have to understand things about structural change, how to implement education and training, how to change policy and process because you can't do a good change without, doing a good job in each one of those four pillars.
Bryan:Okay. I think sometimes you hear people talking about how all this focus on culture change is making the military soft. What would you say to that?
Dan:I think it's a change. I don't think it's making the military soft. We still have that warrior mindset and war fighting focus. When we look at, building cohesion as an example, there is certainly the ability to build cohesion rapidly through strict uniformity and compliance to a certain image. And and that's been used in militaries for centuries, and and there's no denying that.
Dan:It is one way. But then you look to conflict and some of the academic research on frontline units, we can also have cohesion and success through a focus on mission accomplishment and that ruthless pursuit of excellence at mission accomplishment. And you don't need to have the same kind of haircut to do that. You don't need to be clean shaven to do that. You know, when you look at the, the elite units in different wars, quite often when they got to those the front lines of those conflicts, some of that, block discipline, was was let to go by the wayside because the focus became on mission accomplishment.
Dan:That was the paramount thing. And I and I think if we embrace war fighting as a focus on that excellence and on pursuit of mission accomplishment, I think you can still build that cohesion. You can still build that discipline that's required because the discipline is not about tucking in my boots the right way or my shirt. The discipline is about getting that mission done, being a professional, learning how to do it right, and adapting, even in the face of of, of potential failure and and, the challenges that come along with any operation, adapting and overcoming and always finding a way. You know, that's where that that mission focus needs to be.
Dan:So, that would be my pushback to people who say we weaken the force just because we allow people to dye their hair and and maybe, have different grooming standards. No. I I don't think that mission focus has gone away. If anything, with the current strategic environment, people are focusing more, and they're they're you know, the younger generations of people joining the air force today, they're committed just as committed as every other generation ever has done.
Bryan:I'll buy that. I think as long as basically somebody is there to do the business, to get the job done, and accomplish the mission, that's really what matters.
Dan:Absolutely. And we have a professional force that's capable of doing it properly trained and equipped to execute.
Bryan:So you've mentioned maintaining your own flying skills with a requalification on the Bell 412 Outlaw and even purchasing a Piper PA 22 Tri Pacer. How does staying actively involved in flying improve your ability to lead and connect with the trainees at 15 Wing?
Dan:So flying the helicopter, it allows me to go out and actually especially at Portage because, you know, the 3 CFTS unit is is in a location that's about 5 hours away from us. Right? So 5 and a half hours is a bit of distance. It forces me to get out there and fly with them and meet with the commandant and the team, then fly with the instructors. But I also get to sit down with the students, you know, have have meals with them, see what their experience going through pilot training, the different phases is like, and and and have that opportunity to understand what what it's like for them going through it, which informs, you know, what I talk about with you in the common ops, but also gives me an appreciation for what they're going through.
Dan:Because sometimes we forget. Right? Like it you know, for me learning how to fly was a long time ago. And, now now it doesn't seem as dramatic, but at the time it was. It was hard.
Dan:And the other thing it does for me as I look at flying, it reminds me that it actually is a ton of work. And sometimes that's easy to lose sight of once you get out of the cockpit for several years. You forget that it does take a ton of work. It's still stressful.
Bryan:For sure.
Dan:It takes a ton of discipline to do it well. And and I don't care what what platform you're flying. That is the same for all of them. And so for me, that's also been the really informative aspect of keeping the category up. I am by no means, super proficient.
Dan:You know, I barely am able to maintain currency at times, but it gives me an appreciation for the work that our folks are doing. And and I'm not even instructing. I'm just trying to fly the helicopter, and then you add the layer of trying to be a really good instructor on top of that, and and deliver that professional effect for the air force, and train students so that they can go out there, when when the balloon goes up and and and do, you know, pretty intense things for our country. Like, that's and it takes a lot of work. It takes a lot of talent to do that well, and and it helps me not lose sight of that.
Bryan:You've mentioned, there that flying is a lot of work. It's a lot of pressure. It's a lot of work. And like you said, you're in a totally different mind space when you're a student. Like, I look back and think about, like, how did I feel about flying back then?
Bryan:I felt like flying was the end all be all more important than life and death almost. Like like, failing just felt like it could it would be the worst thing that could possibly happen to you. It's just so important when you're in that world.
Dan:One thing I I I'm probably one of the few people who will say it to the news phase twos, but I also remind them that, you know, this is a great way to become a great pilot, but to become a good human being, that's that's on them. You know, this isn't about that. We're gonna train them to great you know, in the air force, we're gonna train to be great pilots first in the pilot training system, great officers beyond that. And then beyond that, you know, they still have, you know, there's different pathways to become a great human being. Not all of them lie in the air in the in the air force.
Dan:Right?
intro:Yeah.
Bryan:Of course.
Dan:I know certainly any of your listeners who are are working in the civilian industry flying. There's a lot of great professionals out there. And we have that history going back over a 100 years in Canada, you know, where the air force was seen initially as the flying bush pilots, in uniform. Like, you know, we have that proud history in Canada that is also super cool to be a part of, whether you're in uniform or not. Like, we have a really strong history of, aerospace developments and and flying in Canada, and, and this can be part of our country just because of how we're built and where we are going forward.
Dan:And that's something that anybody who's in the aviation industry, it doesn't matter if you're working in a tower or or you're a mechanic, working on a helicopter somewhere in the bush or working at Air Canada in a hangar in, in Winnipeg or Vancouver. Like, it's, it it's it's you're you're part of that that wider family, and that's that's a pretty neat place to be.
Bryan:Yeah. I agree. 100%. What do you feel is the biggest upcoming challenge the RCAF will face in training its pilots?
Dan:I think the transition to fact. I mean, that's why I have it for the Ab Initio pilot training system as, the number 2 priority, and that's why I'm putting resources to it right now, to support everything that my my boss and his headquarters is doing for that transition, to make sure that we're giving them the information and looking as far ahead down the road of that road of that implementation, to address concerns and build decision space early. So I I think it will be that, for the Abenishua flight training system. For the wider air force, you know, that's that's the commander of the air force's space to speak to. But, certainly, you know, this is one of the biggest investments that Canada has made in its military since World War 2.
Dan:That is a huge challenge. It doesn't matter what organization you're in, and that's a whole of D and D and CAF challenge. Right? There's gonna be a lot of changes that need to happen, and and you see it coming out of our our new chief of defense staff. You know, her desire to grow the force and do it rapidly and get to us where where we need to be by 2029.
Dan:You know, that's gonna take a lot of hard work from everybody. Yep. And, there's gonna be a a lot, of pressure on our our leaders to to get that right. And, you know, it's, it's gonna be a very interesting time. For our new pilots who are joining the air force, who wanna join the air force, it is also going to be, you know, a hard road, but an amazing time.
Dan:We actually like for me, going through that change in 427 when we switched over to be part of CAN SOFCOM, you know, it is it is a pretty amazing place to be in when you get to be part of writing on a blank page and creating something new. And if you're joining the Air Force now, you're gonna be a part of that, you know, building this this new Air Force and what that's gonna look like for the rest of the 21st century. So it's a great time to be starting in in in your career in the Air Force. I'm I'm pretty obvious actually of of the people who are joining today.
Bryan:Honestly, I feel the same way. It's an old cliche. Right? It's an exciting time to be in the Air Force, but it is a super exciting time to be in the Air Force right now. And especially as people who are just joining because they're gonna be in their career long enough to see all this stuff come to fruition, and they're gonna see this air force become, like, super modern and agile.
Bryan:And I think that's gonna be really, really cool to see.
Dan:It is. Not not with those challenges for sure, but it's, you know, that that's where we cut our teeth is in over overcoming those challenges and delivering delivering the facts we need to deliver.
Bryan:For sure. As wing commander, what lasting impact you hope to achieve at 15 Wing Moose Jaw, and what legacy would you like to leave for future generations of aviators?
Dan:I don't think about my legacy too much. I wanna leave it a little I'll leave it a little bit better than I found it. I think I think we're on the pathway to do that. You know, for wing commanders, much of what we do, I I think it'd be the same for any wing commander if you're to interview any of them. Same thing as formation commanders, across the CAF.
Dan:What we're doing usually affects things, you know, that that last beyond our tenure. And what we're doing when we're coming into command is picking up somebody else's, plan and and helping to bring that to fruition. So it's a shared responsibility over time. So that can be, you know, a a bit of a challenge because we wanna see successes in our time. At the same time, it's also nice to think that you're part of something bigger over time.
Dan:Like, this is a whole of air force effort, and and you look at the scope of the future of air crew training. Like, you realize it is a whole of air air force and CAF and D and D effort. Like, it is you can't say it's just one person championing that. And and to be part of that thing, to be in service to something bigger than yourself, you know, I think that's that's the the coolest part of the service, especially later on in your career in the military. I I would hope leaving here that we've also, you know, adjusted the climate to a certain extent, especially when we're looking at servant leadership and that that approach of trying to empower people to lead change, what change they can locally, and, give them some some resources and freedom to do that.
Dan:I I think that makes everybody's life better, and we get a better set of solutions at the end of the day. It could be hard, you know, to to step back and and and, let things, take a natural course sometimes. But if you give people the the right mission statement and the right intent, you know, a lot of the time, they're not gonna let you down. Mhmm. And so you just have to get out of the way and and let them do it.
Dan:So I'm hoping that we'll see a bit more of a shift in that direction as well. I mean, that's been building again, that's not starting with me. That's been building over time over success of Ring Chemours. Just something that I'm continuing. And, I'm hoping that we'll leave that a bit better by the the time I leave too.
Bryan:Mhmm. I think, like you said, part of a huge part of leadership is trust. Right? It's it's trusting and and getting out of the way and letting letting your people do what they need to do. You've said something a couple times now that I really like.
Bryan:It's the concept of servant leadership. Can you explain that a little bit?
Dan:I guess the simplest version and, again, I'm probably misusing the term in the strictest academic sense, but if you take the hierarchy and you invert it, so my job is not here to tell people what to do and direct them. My job is to support them. For my commandants specifically and the staff who work directly for me, my job is to support them. And when they come to something that they can't solve themselves with the resources or competencies or capabilities they have, then, you know, I'm supposed to take that on and take that to a different level and shop around and find the solutions for that. And I go to my boss with the same things when there are things that I cannot solve.
Dan:You know, my expectation of my higher headquarters, at multiple levels is, you know, I'm bringing that to you as something, you know, as a team sport. This is what we need need to resolve to be better at delivering, in this case, the efficacy of of training, you know, the the generation of air power at the end of the day. And, that's important to all of us. So, you know, please help me with this problem. You know, that's that's the Stewart leadership, mentality.
Dan:As well as it goes to the core, values of the CAF. You know, one of our values is stewardship, and we need to be good stewards of the institution and of the, the the units, the formations, that we're entrusted with. And and part of that is also coaching, mentoring, trying to help, our subordinates, as they grow in their roles and their ranks. And I'm not gonna claim to be perfect at that, but, making a good effort at it. So for me, that's what servant leadership means is is, you know, inverting that that pyramid and being there to support our folks and try to you know, very rarely do I have to direct things.
Dan:More often than not, we're having conversations. I'm trying to gently guide, coach, mentor, and, and, you know, help solve problems that can't be solved, at lower levels.
Bryan:Right on. I like that. So we're gonna move on to some questions from listeners.
Dan:Okay.
Bryan:The first question we have is, has the training backlog improved? And if so, is it sufficient to allow VOT, which is voluntary occupational transfer or commissioning plans into pilot again?
Dan:So the the VOT is always I believe has always been there. I don't think we've closed that. The numbers have decreased in recent years, but that's still open. And other commissioning plans, we always have ROTP and DO, and I don't see that changing. I I don't get to no.
Dan:I get to participate in some of the conversations about what's gonna look like, but ultimately, that goes to my boss and and and then beyond that, the commander of the air force to decide in consultation with the chief of military personnel what the strategic intake plan looks like. What we really want to do is we wanna keep the doors open. At the same time, as we have that transition to fact, we don't want anybody or we want as few people as possible to be stuck in the middle. And what I'd hate to see is for people to be languishing, you know, in training or in the beginning of their training. So we we have made a concerted effort to shrink those timelines.
Dan:And when I talked earlier about measurement and having more precision in our predictions, that's largely a part of what that's about is trying to also minimize those those wait times between, which we all we would target to get as low as even 3 months. I think right now, we're probably on average sitting somewhere between 6 9 months, sometimes shorter, sometimes, longer. But, ultimately, you know, my boss would like to see us get down to 3 months. So, you know, I I can't speak specifically to year over year what the intake will look like. It will vary, depending on that transition to future of aircrew training.
Dan:And it it'll vary because we don't want to, you know, hire somebody on and then just have them sit there and wait. That said, you know, the air force is taking a lot of of of strides in changing, or addressing how we're going to position people during the training and making sure that it's value added. So there's there's efforts on going up, again, higher headquarters, not necessarily my partnership, but I know there's work out there to make sure that if there is spent time, waiting, we wanna make it as relevant as possible.
Bryan:Okay. So, basically, we're working on minimizing it, but at the same time, also trying to make sure there's maximum value of that time while you're waiting.
Dan:Absolutely.
Bryan:So this is a question we've answered before, but I get asked it so often that I'm gonna ask you again. Okay. If someone is in their early thirties, do you think it's too late to try to be an RCAF pilot?
Dan:Absolutely not. As the pilot occupational adviser, I get to see some of the files that come in and the, the exemptions that are are are asked for different things. You know? Somebody else does the work in the the, the PLARs and and looking at skills levels to see if they could bypass phases and things.
Bryan:A PLAR is prior learning assessment and recognition.
Dan:We've seen, you know, people much older than 30 apply, and, they still make great pilots. The age for flying, you know, in in the airline industry as well is going up. We can employ people for a lot longer. People are staying healthier for longer. As long as you're committed and and want to serve, I think we should be considering that for sure.
Dan:So 30 is definitely not too old.
Bryan:Yep. Totally agree. And honestly, they said early thirties. I think that stands for late thirties. You can start in this career a lot later than you might think.
Dan:Absolutely.
Bryan:I have a few questions from a student who is starting phase 2 this December, and, they mentioned they're super excited about that.
Dan:Great.
Bryan:The first question and first, this might require a little explanation between attached posting and posting. So recently, the posting to phase 2 was changed to an attached posting. Can you, in broad strokes, explain what that means and explain why it happened?
Dan:Sure. A a posting is, a formal movement from one unit to another that involve a transfer of command and control authority over that person in a military sense, so that there is a full command over that that person in their career. So full, I guess, if you will, ownership. Attached posting is more like a loan. You know, somebody goes, in a similar sense for a longer period of time to another location, but they're not entitled to the same benefits, and, like the full move.
Dan:And they don't necessarily have the the receiving unit doesn't have the full necessarily, the full control over that individual or where they're going, you know, next as an example. So attached postings are also usually applied when you're going to be somewhere for a shorter period of time, less than a year. I'm not sure exactly what the figure is in the, the, DAODs, but it's for a shorter period of time. A posting generally lasts years when you're in a location. So as we tighten up, and, again, I don't think this change has actually happened yet.
Dan:I think it's actually still being considered, so it's not formalized or finalized. So I don't know exactly what the final solution is gonna look at and whether there'd be a hybrid or everybody would be attached postured or not. So, I I guess I have to offer that caveat as well. I I don't think it's actually a done deal yet, but I know the intention behind it. And, again, this rests more with my higher headquarters, but it affects us and Moose Jaw.
Dan:As we've tightened up those timelines, you know, and we're trying to get people through, I I'd like to see people graduate with their wings, no later than sort of 3 years after their commissioning if if I could have my brothers. Mhmm. If we tied up that timeline, you won't be actually in one location that long to to merit a full posting. And then as well as you're waiting between phases phases, we should be helping you wait on an RCF wing in a place where you're gonna see benefit, where you could be exposed to your on the job job training to a future, capability or platform, whether or not you end up there out of your pilot training. At least you've been exposed to operations in the Air Force somewhere else.
Dan:You know, sitting in Moose Jaw between phases isn't necessarily gonna give you that same exposure. So I think there's those those two aspects to it, making it shorter. And I think at the end of the day, it's probably gonna be a better experience for pilots when they're, between phases for training.
Bryan:Okay. How does training for phase 2 differ from the Euro NATO joint jet pilot training program or NGEP in Texas?
Dan:I I haven't actually been down to Njet myself, and, and I haven't flown it myself. So I'm not entirely sure their training plan, what it looks like in comparison to ours in detail. But, generically, for the most part, we're getting the same competencies and skills out of it. They're I'm given to understand that some of their scoring is slightly different from ours. How they actually track their averages and score their pilots overall on their courses, the metrics they use is slightly different but complementary to what we do.
Dan:So I'm not convinced there's actually a substantial difference between. Certainly, procedurally, there'll be some changes. You're flying in American airspace. There's gonna be, differences there.
Bryan:For sure.
Dan:But, you know, you even you think about instrument flying, you know, we're all beholden to the ICAO standards.
Bryan:For the listeners, ICAO is the International Civil Aviation Organization.
Dan:And nations could do something slightly differently, but fundamentally, the the, you know, instrument flying is is very similar around, any nation that conforms to ICAO standards. So I don't think there's actually that much of a difference. I think they produce a very high quality product, and we're lucky to be a part of that program. We've been part of that program as well, I think, since the I'd have to go check my notes, but I think it's since the 19 eighties. Like, we've been there for a while.
Bryan:Oh, wow.
Dan:Yeah. One way or another.
Bryan:I didn't realize that. I thought that was fairly new within the last 10, 15 years, So that's pretty cool.
Dan:No. It's it's been longer than that for sure.
Bryan:Their final question for you was what is the best restaurant, cafe, pub in town?
Dan:So I couldn't pick 1.
Bryan:How how about a couple of favorites?
Dan:Yeah. If you if you well, that's the thing that's impressed me about Moose Jaw as I moved back here. When I was going through training and it might have been also because as a poor student at the time with, you know, small family and a young family and, you know, making what a second lieutenant makes, Probably didn't get out in town to the restaurants all that much. But, you know, they have there's multiple restaurants. If you like Chinese food, there's there.
Dan:There's, Irish pubs. There's, you know, there's Thai food. There's a couple different sushi places. You know, so my my spouse and I are going around to all these different places, and, you know, it's worth exploring. So I'm not gonna say that I have a particular favorite, but there there's lots of good restaurants around town.
Dan:And I'm looking forward to going to Roba's. I've never been there. I heard it's good, so I'm gonna try that next. I wanna go back to to the the Irish pub in town, downtown, and, you know, but they're all good.
Bryan:Is that, Bobby's?
Dan:I think it was Bobby's. Yeah.
Bryan:Yeah. I remember they did trivia.
Dan:I I wanna try that again. And, yeah, it depends on what you like. You know? I think there's a place down at the corner of, the bottom end of Main Street that does trivia, once a week. There's a pub there that does that.
Dan:Then there's, you know, Mary Brown's, which is more, you know, you know, like every other Mary Brown's that you'd find across the country. So there's there's some statement
Bryan:Mary wait. Mary Brown's or Brown's Social House?
Dan:Sorry. Brown's Brown's Social House. My apologies. Barry Brown's is a chicken place, isn't it? I don't think we have one of those.
Dan:But, you know, there's there's multiple pizza places in town too. There's local pizza places and there's chains, so there's a variety there. It's, you know, if I could say one thing for the folks who are coming to Moose Jaw, whether you're coming as a student or as an instructor, I I think it's a better place to be. It always was a good place to be, but it's it's it's a good place to be now. It's a small town, easy to live.
Dan:If you're living here as an instructor, or staff, You know, your family can afford to buy a house and have kids and activities, and you'll have the time. So you only have to drive across town. You can get across in in 10 minutes from a a karate lesson to a hockey game or or a, you know, another music lesson or something across town for your kids. So it's a great place to be, and you're not too far from Regina. It can be a bit of a challenge to travel air wise out of Regina, but you can make it happen.
Dan:So it's it's it's a good place to live. It's, you know, to start out a career, nobody should be turning their nose up at it. That's for sure.
Bryan:Sounds like it's come a long way. Like, I agree with you. It was a it was a fine place when I was there as a student, but I my focuses were not really on exploring the area. But it sounds like, especially in terms of, like, restaurants and services and stuff, it's really blown up.
Dan:I think, well, blown up might be overstating it. But, you know, I I remember walking downtown as a student and seeing a lot more empty storefronts, and I don't see the same thing anymore. There's there's the the town the city has made a lot of gains and has put a lot of effort into revitalizing their downtown core and and making it a good place to live and work for families, and, and it shows. It's it's really, we've really done a good job, in the last couple of decades.
Bryan:That's great to hear. Our next question was about skipping phase 1. So some people have been able to skip phase 1 and move straight to phase 2. Have you seen these students struggle at all as a result of this? And if so, what areas of phase 2 present a particular challenge?
Dan:So there's 2 different contexts. 1 would be people who have previous experience, and then you do what's called the PLARIS or a previous learning assessment. And, if the staff at 2 Canadian Air Division determine that you've met what we have in our training plans and qualification standards for that given course, then sometimes we can advance people beyond that. And in that case, I I don't think people would struggle too much. We have run only one trial where we went direct to phase 2.
Dan:I I'm not aware of any other, cases where you've gone direct to phase 2. And that trial is still ongoing. The the folks are still on course, so I wouldn't comment on the results of that yet. That's fair. You can expect that there would be things that people would, find challenging for sure because you've never flown an aircraft before.
Dan:You never talked on a radio. You've never taxied an aircraft. So there's gonna be a really steep learning curve if you do that. But it also highlights for us, I think at the end of the day, we're gonna learn what we truly get of value out of that phase 1 program, and it's gonna help inform what we do going forward for, future vehicle training as well. So I I think it's been a worthwhile effort.
Dan:But for those folks, yeah, certainly, they're gonna be, they they have been and will be working hard, as they come into phase 2. But, what I get them to understand, for the most part, they're succeeding, and, no different in the the rates compared to any other course. But we'll we'll wait to see how that trial finally finalizes and and what we can learn from it.
Bryan:For sure. I can speak a little bit to skipping phase 1 since I did that Okay. Coming in with a commercial multi IFR license. I and just personally, I found the biggest struggle was, aerobatics. Okay.
Bryan:I found I was ahead in IF. I found aerobatics were something that everyone else had done and I hadn't. So I found that challenging. You catch up within a flight or 2. But at first, I was kinda frustrated because I was like, what you know, everything else was coming fairly easy, and then I got hit with this thing I'd never done.
Bryan:So it was a bit humbling. But, overall, it's a challenge, but you get through it.
Dan:Yeah. It's it's interesting to point that out and highlights that at each one of those phases. You know, there are some core competencies that that gets, drilled into us, that that, you know, we carry forward with us once we get our wings.
Bryan:For sure. So our next question is technology is constantly evolving, and the United States Air Force is beginning to use virtual reality to train their pilots. Will Canada follow in their footsteps? And if so, when?
Dan:So I think it's important to know we have been using simulation for a long time. Like, even when you had the tutor, it just wasn't advanced as what we have now. We have foam full motion simulators as an example in Portage for the King Air and, you know, other task trainers for the, the 206 and the and the Grove. We've been using virtual reality in the form of simulation for a long time. For the future of it, I think we've trialed a few things in Portage, over the past couple of years.
Dan:There's, virtual reality goggles. They're doing 3 60 videos for initial maneuvers, like the first time that you see an auto rotation or a circuit or a landing in the, in the King Air. Having that level 5 demonstration, from a highly skilled instructor in the VR goggles that standardized for everybody to see, I think there's a lot of benefit to that. Beyond that, if you want to have practice in VR, whether that's mixed reality or full virtual reality, you really need to have and this is what we're learning. You really need to have good models of that aircraft so that everything you're doing is, representing what the real aircraft would do.
Dan:So as you become more advanced in maneuvers, you need that constant feedback from the model that's presented that replicates what the aircraft is going to do. Otherwise, you won't necessarily be you're almost as good just going and chair flying it and using your imagination to remember how that aircraft actually reacts to what you're doing. So I think that's one thing we have to be careful about, when we're looking at the future of VR. If we want to use it for more, higher end, complex maneuvers, you're going to have to have really good models to make that work. You know, maybe someday somebody can introduce AI into that.
Dan:I know Yousef is looking at some eye tracking. We've done some of that as well. CAE has done that with DRDC and one of the experiments they've looked at. There may be some use for that, but I think you're still probably several years or I suspect you're probably still several years away before we have algorithms that can recognize what good looks like, and then provide that coaching feedback to a student, the same way that we now do with an instructor sitting beside you or sitting behind you in in the same aircraft who can see what you're doing and and diagnose and give you feedback on the high end things that we do. So, yeah, I think there's a future for VR.
Dan:It's it's not gonna be as instantaneous as maybe some people, the hype might might lead to, but, you know, it it's gonna take an investment. If you wanna use it properly beyond those more simple examples I provided, it'll take investment to make sure those models are are really high fidelity so that you get that feedback you need as a pilot to improve.
Bryan:So probably it has its place, but it has its limitations as well.
Dan:Clearly has its limitations. Yeah. Yeah. I think it will continue to evolve and and improve for sure.
Bryan:Okay. What is your career end goal, and what are your hopes for the future of your career?
Dan:For your end goal, I've yeah. It's more the the end of the career picking me. You know, it it it's been an adventure. That's one of the nice things about an Air Force career and a career in the CAF is, you don't necessarily know when it's gonna take you. And so that variety is pretty cool.
Dan:I'm hoping to to go back towards Winnipeg, if that works out. But I don't know for sure. And, you know, I've I've had enough experience in the Air Force to know that no matter where I end up, it's gonna be interesting and rewarding. So see where it goes. I'm getting on towards the end of my career, though.
Dan:So it is weird to be in the latter part of your career. You know, maybe the latter third, depending on how long you you stick around. But it's, it's definitely a strange place to be, more more runway behind you than there is ahead. But one of the things that's invigorating, I got it, with this job that's that's so cool is I get to talk to people at the start of their career and and and get to get to enjoy a bit of that energy as well. Yeah.
Dan:So I I don't know exactly where I'm gonna end up, or what's gonna happen with the rest of my career, but I'm pretty sure it's gonna be fun.
Bryan:Awesome.
Dan:You know, we we mentioned having my own little plane. You know, that's my happy place as well. So as we're getting to that stage in life where I can, you know, have, have some things that I focus on for fun, I still really enjoy flying, and and even just the basics of flying. It is being a pilot, inside the military, outside the pilot. I think it's always gonna be part of my life.
Dan:As long as I remain healthy enough to do it, it's I I enjoy it. I I still like getting up in a very simple aircraft and just taking off and landing and doing some some basic maneuvers. It's it's still fun even now.
Bryan:That's great. I love to hear that. So we're gonna ask you our final three questions that we ask every guest. You've had many demanding positions in the RCAF. How do you stay ready to do your job?
Dan:So definitely a focus on self, and I haven't always been good at that. Focusing on, you know, sharp from the saw I've been good at, but I've taken care of my own self. Haven't always been that great, but I try to improve that lately, both physically and mentally. You know, I think that's important for your readiness. And, you you always have to also find some ways to continually improve, but I try not to push as hard on that as maybe I have earlier in my career.
Dan:I think that's how you you assure readiness and resilience, you know, and then also, understanding that we're it's a team sport and, trying not to take it on all yourself. That's that's something that's come to me with with age is being willing to actually ask for a bit of help from other people, being confident enough in my own abilities to know that it's okay to still ask for help from other people.
Bryan:Okay. You've seen many pilots come and go through Moose Jaw and beyond. What skills do you think make an effective pilot?
Dan:I think we always have to go back to the fundamentals. And we you asked me earlier about that one lesson that I learned. I I think it comes back to that as well. We need to be disciplined as, aviation professionals in the basics. We need to still, you know, years later, I'm still practicing those, trying to improve those.
Dan:You need to be really good at the basics. And then when you get onto your fleet, you need to become and maintain excellence and be good you know, being good at fighting that that platform and that crew and that formation, depending on what your context is. You know, that that's the key to being effective in this business is is continuing to push and get really good at those basics. The basics are gonna shift over time. Right?
Dan:We're gonna have to include more competencies tied to cyber and and and space
Bryan:Mhmm.
Dan:Power. And so we're gonna have to start getting better at that too. And then getting those basics down so that they become a habit, and then we can actually, you know, when it comes time to do things, in anger or in an emergency, those things are second nature. And so you can focus on the job at hand, the challenge at hand when you get there rather than the basics. Yeah.
Dan:So it always comes back to making sure our pilots are are, 1st and foremost, good pilots, in the fundamentals.
Bryan:I think it's interesting what you said about the basics changing over time. I think that's, completely true, especially with the new aircraft that are coming online as they get more advanced, like what we consider to be the basics. I think what they consider to be the basics are gonna be a lot little more advanced than kind of what we are thinking about when we say focus on the basics.
Dan:Yeah. For sure. There's going to be, systems management as a whole new area of competencies that it's always been there to a certain extent, but I think we'll take more and more focus as we get into more and more complicated aircraft that can, you know, help us do operations better. But the, the way we fly those aircraft will change for sure.
Bryan:What advice would you offer to young Canadians aspiring to join the RCAF and embark on a career in aviation?
Dan:You know, certainly go out and try to fly first, see if you actually like it. It is not it is not for everybody. You know, a a lot of our interest in me and not a lot of the people who are who do who do watch it in a pilot training, a lot of it comes back to the physiological, you know, just gets airsick. Other ones, they get there and and you realize, and it's perfectly okay. I'd rather people find out early than realize maybe it's not for them.
Bryan:Yeah. For sure.
Dan:Go try it out for try it on for size first and see if you really like it because, you know, one of the things I I say to the students as well, each new course that comes through, it it it doesn't get any easier. You know, it actually gets harder as we continue going on. You just get better at it. Yep. So, you know, you you get better at the fundamentals when you get to your OTU.
Dan:You get better at flying that aircraft. It never gets easier. As a professional in the military, it doesn't matter your occupation. It always gets there's you're you're going to do more and more things that are harder and harder, but you just get better at it, and your your toolbox grows. You're able to easier adapt to those new challenges.
Dan:So that's something to think about as well. You know, if you're if you're motivated by that, if you like the idea of service, then absolutely do it. Try it on for size first. You know, go out go out and rent an aircraft. Take a introductory flight with somebody.
Dan:If you're young and, interested in the cadets, go go fly with your cadets. Yeah, drill with them. Take some of the other courses. See the things that, that inflame your passions and and, you know, bring you joy, and, chase those things.
Bryan:Yeah. I think that's great advice. Okay, Dan. That does it for part 2 of our chat here. I just wanna thank you so much for your time.
Bryan:I know you are a very busy guy, being the wing commander. It's not easy to put aside some time sometimes. So I really appreciate you taking the time today to come here and chat with us.
Dan:Absolutely. Thank you so much, Brian, for having me. It's been a lot of fun.
Bryan:Alright. That wraps up our chat with Colonel Dan Coutts, current wing commander of 15 Wing Moose Jaw. For our next episode, we'll be doing a special Valentine's Day episode where we'll sit down with Paul and Mikaela Goddard. Listeners will remember Paul Goddard from our episode on the Cormoran. Paul and Mikaela will be talking about their time as a service couple as Paul is a pilot and Mikaela is a former Akzo or navigator.
Bryan:Do you have any questions or comments about anything you've heard on the show? Would you or someone you know make a great guest on the show, or do you have a great idea for a show? You can reach out to us at the pilot project podcast atgmail.com or on all social media at atpodpilotproject. As always, we'd like to thank you for tuning in today and ask for your help with the big three. That's like and follow us on social media, share with your friends, and follow and rate us 5 stars wherever you get your podcasts.
Bryan:That's all for now. Thanks for listening. Keep the blue side up. See you.
