bryan: 00:29

Alright. We're ready for departure here at the Pilot Project podcast, the best source for stories and advice from RCAF and Mission Aviation Pilots brought to you by Skies Magazine. I'm your host, Brian Morrison. And today, we're going to do things a little differently. For the first half of part one of this chat, my wife and editor, Melissa, will be asking me a few questions regarding an exciting announcement we have.

bryan: 00:49

For the second half, we will sit down with Mike Reno, publisher and owner of Vertical Valor, Vertical Marketplace, Skyes, RCAF Today, eVTOL.com, Insight Magazines, and Vertical MRO Conference, all under MHM Publishing to begin discussing his career in aviation photography. Melissa, thank you for joining me today. And once again, putting yourself behind a microphone.

melissa: 01:11

Thanks for having me back. So, Brian, you have an exciting announcement for the podcast. Can you tell us about it?

bryan: 01:18

Yeah. As of March 18, we will become a weekly podcast partnered with Skies Magazine.

melissa: 01:25

How do you feel about this partnership with Skies Magazine?

bryan: 01:29

Well, when I first talked with, Mike, the owner of MHM Publishing, who also does, Sky Magazine in the summer, I was, very humbled when he put forth the idea of becoming a weekly show and officially partnering with Skies magazine. But now that it's really coming to reality, I'm getting really excited about it.

melissa: 01:48

What will be changing for the show, and what will stay the same?

bryan: 01:51

So basically, the show is gonna stay the same. We're gonna aim to put out the same quality of show that we've always put out. We're still gonna be focused on the RCAF, but we are gonna add new types of content. So you'll notice that the new intro says, the best source for stories and advice from RCAF and Mission Aviation Pilots. So Mission Aviation for us is basically first responders.

bryan: 02:11

It's police, it's firefighting, it's medevac. It's also coast guard search and rescue. So any kind of aviation that's mission based. The other thing that's going to change is we are going to start running advertising in the show. There's going to be two or three ads in each show, and that's basically helping us keep the lights on while we produce the show.

melissa: 02:30

Awesome. So not much change for the listener?

bryan: 02:32

No. For the listener, it's gonna be pretty transparent. The other big change of course is that it'll be weekly. So they'll get even more content from us.

melissa: 02:40

Awesome. Is there anything else that will change?

bryan: 02:44

Yeah. One thing that listeners are gonna notice, especially if they are checking out our social media, which they should for sure, because we put out regular content, cool videos with great quotes from the show, and you can follow that at podpilotproject, of course, is that our branding is changing. So you're gonna notice that the logo will soon no longer be my face. It will be a new logo featuring a propeller and a microphone. So you'll see that changing soon.

bryan: 03:11

So when you see that new icon, just stay subscribed and, rest assured that that is still us.

melissa: 03:18

What do you anticipate will be the biggest challenges moving forward?

bryan: 03:22

So to be perfectly honest, I think the biggest challenge is going to be the weekly schedule. It is twice the work. It's twice the content. It is also twice the ideas to come up with. So the audience can help us there for sure.

bryan: 03:35

If you have ideas for shows, if you have, best of all, actually a guest in mind, you can reach out to us at the pilotprojectpodcast@gmail.com or, as we said, on all social media at at pod pilot project. So, yeah, I think the biggest challenge is gonna be the workload, especially with the show now being weekly, but we are on track to meet our targets, so I'm not really concerned.

melissa: 03:59

What do you think the biggest opportunities will be from this partnership?

bryan: 04:03

So there are going to be a ton of new opportunities. So first, I have a professional media company to help with branding, advertising, to help me on business decisions. Second, they are pros at interviewing guests and writing articles. So I know I can ask for help and mentorship on those fronts. In fact, they've already been helping me out with coming up with questions for some guests that we have lined up.

bryan: 04:23

They're also helping me with access to guests and show ideas. And of course, we should see great growth by accessing their readers as a potential audience.

melissa: 04:31

Awesome. So on a personal note, how have things been since you released from the RCAF in July of twenty twenty four?

bryan: 04:40

Yeah. So we always like to touch on this, when we do these kind of little interviews between the two of us. I think it's important just to kind of highlight, the reality of what it can be like to have a medical release. Honestly, it's been a wild ride with ups and downs. I've definitely found that it's important to stick with my rehabilitation plan with mental health care.

bryan: 04:59

And I've been trying to focus on staying healthy and healing. It's definitely a bit of a shock to be out, but I think overall it's going well. And to be honest, while I do miss being in, I'm also kind of relishing the feeling of being my own person and not being owned by the military. So there's good things and there's bad things. There's things I miss for sure, but it's also nice to be my own person again.

melissa: 05:24

Yeah. I think it will really hit us more when we know more of what our future looks like, but also once we solidify where we're going to live next and what our final move situation looks like.

bryan: 05:36

For sure. I think once we move, it's going to be a whole new ballgame. And I honestly think that's when it's gonna hit us that I'm out of the military because right now we still live in the same place. We have the same friends. We're still buddies with all the military families and stuff.

bryan: 05:50

But once we move, we're not gonna live in a base town for once. All that's gonna be gone. So I really think that's when it's gonna hit.

melissa: 05:57

Definitely. What are your goals moving forward with the podcast?

bryan: 06:01

So I would say the first goal that I have is to keep producing the same quality of show despite the increased, frequency of episodes. My second big goal is the same goal we've had since the beginning, which is growth. I really anticipate that having this partnership with Skyes is going to help with that. They have tens of thousands of subscribers and I'm really hoping that we connect with them as an audience. And of course, the final big goal will be to leverage our contacts through Skies Magazine to get access to interesting and high profile guests.

melissa: 06:35

Which I happen to know you have some on the docket.

bryan: 06:39

Yes. We do have, several high profile guests coming up on the show. I don't wanna give it away yet, but, we have at least three generals coming up on the show.

melissa: 06:50

So super exciting for those who who like to see where the future of the RCAF is going.

bryan: 06:55

Yeah. I would say recently, I've really been conscious of the fact that we're being given access to some fairly high profile people and having that chance to sit down, ask questions, ask about, you know, how are things really working behind the scenes has been a real privilege.

melissa: 07:12

Yeah. It's always helpful when folks who are removed from that level get kind of that insider view as to why leadership's making decisions they're making and why things are the way that they are.

bryan: 07:23

Yeah, a %. Okay, Melissa, thanks for joining me for the first portion of the show. I'm excited for this new partnership we're entering into together, and I'm grateful you're along for the ride with me. So thank you.

melissa: 07:34

Anytime.

bryan: 07:36

So now let's move on to the main portion of the show where we will chat with Mike Reno, the publisher and owner of MHM Publishing and all their publications, including Skies Magazine and RCAF Today. Mike, thanks for being on the show, and I'm excited to chat with you about your career.

mike: 07:50

Pleasure to be here, Brian.

bryan: 07:52

Before we begin, let's go over Mike's bio. Mike Reno is a prominent figure in aviation publishing known for his extensive experience and passion for aviation photography. He has been involved in the aviation publication industry since the early 1990s, building a foundation that supports MHM Publishing's successful portfolio of award winning magazines, which he began with his wife, Linda, in 02/2002. Mike's journey into aviation began when he was just six when his dad took him to the London, Ontario International Air Show for the first time in 1976. By the time he was 14, he developed a keen interest in both aviation and photography, which started to gain him recognition in international aviation trade magazines before landing his first job as the editor of Wings Magazine in 1996.

bryan: 08:35

Over the years, he has flown in nearly 90 different aircraft types and logged more than one thousand hours of air to air photography in military and civil aircraft. As the owner and publisher of MHM Publishing based in Kitchener, Ontario, Mike oversees one of the world's largest family owned aviation publishing companies, which produces many notable multimedia aviation brands, including Vertical, Vertical Valor, the Vertical Helicast Podcast Network, Helitrader, Skyes, and RCIF Today. Recently, MHM Publishing expanded into the event space with the launch of the Vertical MRO Conference, the first event in the world dedicated exclusively to rotorcraft maintenance, repair, and overhaul with upcoming additions in Kelowna, BC and Irving, Texas. Mike's dedication to aviation journalism and photography has made him a respected authority in the field, contributing significantly to the dissemination of aviation knowledge and the celebration of aerospace achievements. So, Mike, we touched on this in your bio, but what sparked your passion for aviation?

mike: 09:32

Well, it actually goes back to, well, in 1976 was when my, my dad took me to the the London Airshow. It's always a joke that I have with my dad is that he never taught me how to skate, but he took me to an airshow. So I still don't know how to skate, but, the airshow, it, it certainly spawned on a passion for for aviation. And it's something that really I think, for some people when they went to an air show, you know, they went off, they joined the air force, such as in in your case. Other peoples went into other sectors of, of aviation.

mike: 10:12

But for me, my interest was going into exactly where I am today. So that was, you know, covering the aviation and aerospace, sectors, initially starting with Canada and then spreading globally.

bryan: 10:25

Yeah. That's interesting that it was the London Airshow that sparked that for you because the London Airshow is also the airshow I grew up going to with my dad. And, it was totally formative for me. Just it's it was such a great the London International Airshow for so long was iconic. And then it kinda went through a slump cause they had a couple bad years with weather, and then it's I believe has come back and, is doing quite well again.

bryan: 10:48

So that's really cool.

mike: 10:49

Yeah. It is. It's amazing to see how that show has progressed. But when you look at, what air shows have done to get people interested in the in the industry, especially into the into the military. So that's why I always figure it's it's important for, for the air force to have presence at these air shows so they can demonstrate to Canadians, like, this is what you can be part of.

mike: 11:12

So I think that's, that remains probably more important today than ever.

bryan: 11:16

I think it's a huge recruiting tool. It's a tough one. Right? Because, resources are finite. Yep.

bryan: 11:22

And you have to prioritize the the operations of the day and training. But, man, those air shows are super useful, I think, for recruiting.

mike: 11:30

Absolutely. Yeah. It's just it's, it's unfortunate you wish you could see, more participation, by the RCAF in air shows that you would see some of those communities that say don't get the recognition that they would deserve at airshows. So for example, you know, tackle. When do you ever see a Griffin and a Chinook demonstration at an airshow?

mike: 11:52

We we constantly see the CF eighteen demo team or you see the Snowbirds. But we don't see are a lot of the lesser communities, which are also of great interest, for people to be part of. So I'm hoping that we start to see that change as the outreach continues for the RCAF.

bryan: 12:09

Yeah. That would be so cool to go to an air show and see, like, a big formation of Chinooks and Griffins come in or something like that as a demonstration of, like, how they would move a large amount of troops. Like, that would be so cool.

mike: 12:18

Yeah. Absolutely. So we hope in the coming years that we'll we'll see some, some changes when it comes to that.

bryan: 12:25

Yeah. For sure. So how did that passion for aviation end up being combined with photography, and how did you gain recognition in that field?

mike: 12:33

So because of the air show, there was a group of people that would that would come to the show from The United States. They came from The United Kingdom. And I just kinda started to to watch them, and they would hang out with them. It was the guys like the the Don Sperring. There was Dave Brown.

mike: 12:51

There's, they were both from The US. There was Robbie Shaw from The UK. At that time, they were very, very well known within aviation circles, as photographers. So I managed to to kinda, you know, as a kid, get into those circles and and then got to meet with them and kinda mentor. You know, they were mentoring me and, you know, this is what you should do.

mike: 13:13

So I picked up a camera. Actually, I stole my brother's camera, and took it to the, took it to the London Air Show. And, you know, that first, that first year, I think maybe one in 30 pictures that I took, turned out, but it got me started. And then, you know, year after year, you would you would start to, you know, slowly get better because, really, the only thing I was, where I was going for the aviation, I wasn't going to the airports to hang out at a runway. It was just the air shows that I was doing at the time.

mike: 13:45

So I'd ask a lot of questions. And that's why I always tell people, I said, ask a lot of questions. How do you gain access? How do you how do you get better at taking pictures? And keep in mind, back in those days, it was all film.

mike: 13:55

So I didn't know the results until a week later did something turn out versus watch someone at an airshow today and you'll you know, an f 18 will fly by and and then look at all their heads, look go down and look in their camera to see, did I get the shot? We had to wait a week. So one thing led to another, and then I had my first photo was, was published in a US Navy publication called Tailhook. You know, it was a it's a famous magazine with the, with the US Navy. So that was where my first image was was published.

mike: 14:29

And from that one image, then it just it snowballed after that. Because what I had is I was able to demonstrate that I could get published. And then what I started to do is that I would take that and I would show someone, if it was public affairs, that you would go to them and say, hey. Look. I I got published in this in this magazine, whatever it was, x y z.

mike: 14:52

And, and then it just started to snowball, and you would start to ask the questions. Well, how do I get to go flying? How can I go up in a in a Canadian military aircraft? So and then as that started to build, then I got my foot in the door.

bryan: 15:09

Mhmm. It's funny you talk about the days of film versus digital photography. I guess the other difference too is they can just hold the button down, right, and take, like, a hundred photos. And, you know, what was a fill a roll of film? Twenty twenty four?

bryan: 15:22

Something like that?

mike: 15:23

It was '36.

bryan: 15:24

Thirty '6.

mike: 15:26

It it was '36 that you were that you would take. So, yeah, you were spending a lot of money on on film.

bryan: 15:33

Yeah. I remember seeing the, Lancaster come into London One Year, and there was a guy doing aerial photography as many are at air shows beside us. And my dad asked him because the guy was just holding down the button and burning through a roll of film every pass for the Lancaster. And my dad said, doesn't that get expensive? And the guy said, man, if I get one good shot that

mike: 15:52

I can sell, it's all worth it. Oh, a %. And that's what they look for is that one that one shot. Mhmm. You know, we always get, a lot of contributors that are sending in photos, and they'll send me in.

mike: 16:05

It could be 30 photos that are all very similar to what they look. And I'm like, just pick the one that you like Yeah. And then send that send that into us. But, yeah, it certainly changed from from the early days, you know, when we, when we started this.

bryan: 16:22

Yeah. For sure. So can you tell us about your first experience doing air to air photography?

mike: 16:29

Yeah. Sure. It, it's funny how it came to be is that, again, at the air shows, I would ask crews. And, it was back at the London Air Show. A lot of this all happened at the London Air Show, and there was a sea king there.

mike: 16:43

And I was talking to the crew, and I said, you know, how can you get up in a in a helicopter or an aircraft to to do air to air photography? And, and the pilot came back and he said, if you get permission from public affairs and you're you're gonna get published in a magazine, it's usually not too hard of a process. So armed with that, now fast forward, and, I'm actually going to Dalhousie University now in Halifax in, in '91. And it was my first year, and there was the Shearwater International Air Show was, was going on. I talked to the crews there.

mike: 17:18

And I had a commitment from Esprit de Corps magazine. Esprit de Corps magazine was fairly new at the time. And the Sea King, squadron, so four two three, had just returned from Op Friction. So Gulf War one. Okay.

mike: 17:34

They had just returned, and they had converted I believe it was eight Sea Kings had been converted more into a surveillance type mission, almost like a utility helicopter versus the mission of ASW that the Sea King is traditionally known for, conducting that mission. And, so I approached them. I said, hey. Can we do a story about the conversion process of the Sea Kings, what the mission of the Sea Kings were when they were flying with, with the squadron, during the operation? And I came back, and I got an approval to, to go fly with him because I had a magazine that would that committed to, publishing the story.

mike: 18:10

So it was a gentleman by the name of lieutenant colonel Larry McQua. And at that time, Larry was now the wing opso at Shearwater, but he was previously the CO four two three squatter. So he basically took me under his wing and said, okay. Let's go. So we did a briefing.

mike: 18:28

This is what we're gonna do for for the photos, came up with what we were looking for, and off we went. So it was, it was amazing because it was the first time where, you know, how do you talk to, to the crews to say, this is what I want. You know, I'm a newbie at this and this you know, do I tell a pilot that he's flying too far away, or can he get closer, all these other things? So that's basically when it started was, not long after the the Shearwater Air Show that here I am, and I'm flying off the coast of, Halifax along the shoreline, and I've got another Sea King flying beside me. And that's where it all started.

mike: 19:10

So what was kind of interesting is that it started with a helicopter. It went morphed into other things beyond that, but here we are today that never thought it would turn into vertical, now being the largest helicopter magazine in the world, but it all started with a helicopter. I didn't think it would go to what it did back then. But it was four two three squadron. That's where it all started.

bryan: 19:33

No kidding. Did did you pick a helicopter first just because that's, I would assume, maybe an easier platform for air to air photography?

mike: 19:41

Yeah. Definitely. I think that that played into it. But one of the other things that played into it as well is that and this is what I learned as I started getting more and more immersed into into doing the photography, is that in in air forces, who gets the least sort of recognition? It's usually gonna be anyone from the rotary communities.

mike: 19:59

You know, the helicopter guys don't get nearly the same sort of attention as the fighter community, for example.

bryan: 20:04

For sure.

mike: 20:05

So what I wanted to do is I wanted to shed the spotlight on the helicopter community within the, within the air force. They didn't get the recognition that they deserve. So I started to tell those stories. And then that's what led to then pilots, people, they they changed squadrons. So, you know, they would say, hey.

mike: 20:23

You know, we're flying this. Do you wanna come and, and fly with us based on what you did with, you know, previous squadron? So in Shearwater, then it led to, at that time, there was a utility squadron there called v u thirty two. And then it was that squadron, saw the photos that I did for the Sea King squadron, and that's where I got my first flight in a, in a t 33.

bryan: 20:48

Oh, cool.

mike: 20:49

So flying with VU thirty two. And then I did I flew many, many times in in the T Bird. It was actually it's a it was an excellent, aircraft to fly in for photography, especially if you had a good pilot that knew how to get that big tip tank out of the photo. But I tell you what, that first flight I flew with v v 32, I thought when I got out of that aircraft, I am not flying in a jet again because it was I was getting sick, violently sick, because what you learn is what you see and what you do. So what you see through your lens and what you're doing and what the plane that you're photographing is doing is three different things that are happening that you're trying to process in your brain.

bryan: 21:32

Oh, yeah.

mike: 21:33

And that's what that that's what brings on the nausea. And, you know, I was into it maybe about a half hour. And then after that, I just I it it it went downhill quickly from from there. But I learned to get past it. Over the years, I learned how to get past, the the air sickness.

mike: 21:53

And and, actually, I learned it by mistake. And the big thing was, I was going up in a, in an f 18, and they said your flight's gonna be later in the day. So I was like, oh, I can go have lunch. I'm gonna be fine.

bryan: 22:05

Because I

mike: 22:05

would always go up and think, don't eat. You know? It's just gonna come up. I went and ate lunch, and then they said, oh, you're going now. And I just had this anxiety, and this fear came over me as like, oh, no.

mike: 22:16

This is gonna be horrible. And I never got sick.

bryan: 22:19

Yeah.

mike: 22:19

And then from there on, I knew, have a nice meal before you go fly, and you won't get sick. And that's how I learned to to combat the airsickness problem.

bryan: 22:28

I never would have even thought about that. But once you explain it, like, the the three sensations, the what you're seeing, what the other plane is doing, what your plane is doing, that would absolutely combine to make most people sick.

mike: 22:41

Oh, it's yeah. It it's horrible. And especially when you're when you're looking through that lens, you just you're not associating what directions things are going. You could be inverted. You've been going straight up, but you're just focused in on that on that aircraft that you're taking photos of.

mike: 22:59

So, yeah, it's it's, several different senses that are that are happening at the same time.

bryan: 23:05

For sure. So you started getting your foot in the door with these various squadrons. How did you end up landing that job editing for Wings Magazine in 1996? Because I'd imagine that was a pretty big deal for you.

mike: 23:16

That was huge, especially for, for someone like myself where I didn't when I went to university, I I took political science. I I wasn't taking anything in in the world of journalism. But actually, what got me to that point, I have to to give credit to, to some folks in the, in the public affairs within the RCAF. John Blakely, he was public affairs for Maritime Air Group. At that time, Maritime Air Group existed, which included anything had to do with Aurora or, or seeking.

mike: 23:48

And the and, four three four squadron became part of that view thirty two. And And they kinda took me under their under their wings. So they really helped me, build, I guess, the awareness in the RCAF. They helped me with the the stories. They helped give me that access.

mike: 24:05

So with that in hand, as I built that up, I was getting more stories out there. So in '90, '94 is when I first started writing for Wings as a freelancer. So I started with, with them. They used to do an annual, air force special, and I was part of that. And one of the first stories that, that we that we wrote about, had to do with a big, counter drug operation that had gone on.

mike: 24:33

It was the the name of the operation escapes me now, but it was a massive undertaking by, by the RCAF. Actually, it was one wing that really, was instrumental in this, and it was a, a cargo aircraft. And I forget what the tonnage of of marijuana was that they, that they intercepted, but this was the first story that I that I did for wings. So I started doing, all the military coverage, for Wings. And this was actually thanks to Larry Milbury, who is very well known in RCAF circles as well as a well known author and military historian.

bryan: 25:10

Mhmm.

mike: 25:11

So he kind of paved the way for me. So I started writing for for Wings. And then I had, I had moved out to Vancouver. I chased Linda at that time. We weren't married.

mike: 25:20

I chased her out to to Vancouver, and you couldn't really make a goal out of it. And then we decided we're gonna move back to Ontario, but I didn't have a job to come back to. So I stopped in Calgary, which is where Wings was based out of, and I pitched them the idea. I said, listen. Why don't why don't you let me come on, full time that I can start covering not just the military, but I can start doing covering other facets of Canadian aviation.

mike: 25:48

At that time, they had Wings magazine and they had Helicopters magazine. So I pitched them the idea. I had made, I guess, a good impression on them with everything they had done. They're pretty impressed with all the access I was getting, within the air force and elsewhere now in Canadian aviation. So they said, yeah, let's do it.

mike: 26:11

So then I, I took on that, full time position with Wings.

bryan: 26:15

Were you nervous at all walking in there to kind of sell yourself to the magazine?

mike: 26:19

Oh, yeah. Because they never at that time, if I recall, they didn't have anyone that was a full time writer. Everyone was always a, a freelance writer at the time. But one of the things that I learned, was that if you don't ask, how are you going to know? And that's how I approached everything that I did with, well, with everything I've done.

mike: 26:42

But with the Air Force, I just kept on asking those questions. Hey, You know, I I flew in this. Can I fly in that? To do a story. But what was was happening is that they saw that by asking those questions or by granting me that access, this this wasn't because so Mike can go for a joyride in the back of an f 18 or an f five or whatever it was.

mike: 27:04

They saw the results of what was being produced. So it was, it was being published in the magazine. It was building awareness, about the Air Force. So that's why I continued to get that sort of access. I remember this was back at the London Air Show, and there's gonna be a lot of stories that always go back to the London Air Show.

mike: 27:25

One of the things that I remembered at the time is that a lot of those photographers that that I had met from The US and The UK, One of the things I noted is that none of them did this as a full time career. Some were, you know, police officer. One was an air traffic controller. Like, they all had their own jobs that they did. But I was like, there's gotta be a way you can do this full time.

mike: 27:48

I mean, I really I love doing it. I said, there's gotta be a way I can do this full time. So that's where I started to separate myself, and it goes back to I asked those questions that no one else would ask. How do I get the access to things? So one of the things I learned is keep keep your mouth shut and don't tell people what you're doing.

mike: 28:05

So here I am at the London Air Show, but before the show, I knew that four three seven squadron was showing up with the tanker. At that time, it was the CC one thirty seven. They were coming with the tanker, and they were gonna do a demo with an f 18 and an f five off each wing. So I reached out to the squadron. I said, hey.

mike: 28:21

You guys are gonna be at the London Air Show. What are the odds that I could get on the aircraft to do some photos? So, again, I had some photos under that were published under my belt, and I shared that with them. And here I am at the London Airshow, and I don't say a word. And, so the crew comes out from doing their, their briefing, and I believe that the pilot at the time was major Steve Jenkins.

mike: 28:41

I think that's who it was. And, I talked to him before. No one knew I was talking to him. And they come out, and I'm standing in with a group of photographers. And, and Steve looks at me.

mike: 28:50

He goes, alright, Mike. Let's go. And and I just walk out from the crowd, and I'm walking out to this tanker. And all the looks on all the other faces and there's probably 12 of them standing there like, where the hell is Reno going? And out to the tanker, I walk, and I get in, and no one knew that I was doing it.

mike: 29:09

So that was what I learned as I asked the asked the the right question to the right person. A lot of it has to do with timing. And then it was being able to illustrate that, hey. Like, I'm producing content about whatever it is I was doing. Mhmm.

mike: 29:25

So I wasn't a fan favorite when I got off that tanker after that flight. So but, but that's how that's how I learned. Just ask the questions.

bryan: 29:35

I used to fly with a guy who would say that the most important three letters in the alphabet are a s k. Yeah. Don't ask, don't get.

mike: 29:43

Exactly. And that's and that's a %. You just ask the questions. And and how do you go about doing that? And it opens so many doors.

mike: 29:51

And I have to say too is that it was all about timing. Like, now to do what I did then, I think it would be a lot more difficult to try that, say, today. Mhmm. It's it's the the, it's just more difficult because you can't fly, Civilians can't fly in a lot of the aircraft anymore. Like Mhmm.

mike: 30:09

You can't fly in a c f a civilian can't fly in the CF 18 anymore. It needs US state department approval for a civilian to fly in the Hornet, for example. But it's just the barriers to entry there. There's a lot more than what there used to be.

bryan: 30:24

For sure. And everything now is kind of, I think it's more, there's more bureaucracy around taking a passenger in general. Like there's layer layers of approval that have to happen and it's it's a lot more the the days of, hey. Can can I come with you guys today? And then just walking on board are are long gone.

mike: 30:43

Absolutely. And the thing is now is that, you know, there's there's so many different ways of disseminating information. You know, at that time, it was a magazine. That's all basically, that's all there was is that you were disseminating the information through through a magazine or or other printed media sources. Look at the many ways that you can disseminate information today from what we're doing right now in a podcast to social media channels or whatever.

mike: 31:08

But, you know, the Air Force is looking to say, okay, well, where are we gonna do you have just a a Facebook page or an Instagram page that, hey, we're gonna provide you with this access? Or is there more that you're reaching a greater audience and not just aviation enthusiasts?

bryan: 31:24

Mhmm. So we've talked about it a little bit already, but can you tell us about the first time you flew in a military jet?

mike: 31:31

Yeah. So it was, like I said earlier, it was with v thirty two at Shearwater. And, it's funny. The the the pilot I flew with was, Chris Conway. And, Chris is out of the air force now, but I still bump into him on a on a regular basis.

mike: 31:48

And it doesn't matter who I'm talking to, but the first thing out of Chris's mouth when he sees me, he looks at whoever I'm standing with, and he says, oh, I'm the guy that popped Mike's cherry in the back of a T Bird. It's like it's just it it it always happens. But, you know, it was amazing because you had to go through, several different processes to be able to get into the back seat of a of a t 33. So I had to take the high altitude indoctrination course. At that time, it was in, it was in Greenwood, so I had to go through that.

mike: 32:20

And then, of course, when you go to the squadron, then you have to to learn how to, you know, you're learning the safety system. So All the LC stuff. Seats. You know, all the LC stuff. So you're learning all this.

mike: 32:32

But keep in mind, at that time, I'm this 22 year old kid that's going, okay. I gotta learn how to eject out of this aircraft, and all everything else that goes along with it. So once I got past that, and it's the level of anxiety, you know, when you're going up in your first fast jet, But the squadron was awesome. You know, the the they really, bring you into the fold, and they're just like, okay, let's just go with it. But then, like I said, the, the air sickness comes on, and then it's not as fun as as it was when you took off, but but it was still an amazing experience.

mike: 33:10

And that's that's how it started. And it really started with those first people that were willing to entrust me to do the things that I started to do by flying in their aircraft. Mhmm. And and it was really a that was the turning point where it was like, okay, these guys trust me to to get in the aircraft. And then it was also it wasn't like an aviation geek is coming into the back of the aircraft, and that's all I can I can talk about?

mike: 33:38

No. It was I came and I treated it professionally of that. Hey. Yeah. This is fun.

mike: 33:45

I'm flying in the back of of an aircraft, but this is also the tool that I need to do the job that I have to do. And that's how I approached it.

bryan: 33:54

So you experienced a significant milestone with one of my favorite jets, which is the CF five Freedom Fighter. How did you end up being the last civilian to fly in one?

mike: 34:04

Well, so I'm gonna hit rewind for just a sec to say how I got into the CF five, the first flight. Four nineteen squadron was was flying them at the time. And, again, it goes back to because one of the guys was on the t bird squadron. He was now at four nineteen squadron, and then I got the access. So the first flight I went on, in the CF five, it was for the four students.

mike: 34:29

So we took up six CF fives. So it was, four a models and two, d models. So two, two seat aircraft. I'm in I'm in the back of one. And this was their first training exercise to do air to air refueling.

mike: 34:44

So it was the CC one thirty seven, and we launched out of Cold Lake. And here I am flying with five other f fives with a tanker, and these guys are all learning how to plug for the first time into the into the basket. So it was a pretty incredible experience, to watch these guys. Now in the in the two c f five, you couldn't do air to air refueling, so I'm just watching the the single seaters do it. So so it was pretty amazing.

mike: 35:08

And then I did, I believe I did about three or four flights in the in the f five. But how I became to be the last civilian to fly in the c f five, it was just coincidence. I, 80, was doing some they were doing testing, and it was a new targeting pod. It was actually the first targeting pod for the f 18 at the time. Okay.

mike: 35:32

The name of the targeting pod suddenly escapes me, but it was the early you know, it's where how it's it's not the sniper pod, but it was

bryan: 35:40

Yeah. The one before.

mike: 35:42

Yeah. And I can't remember what it was called. But, anyway, they wanted to do photos of the f 18 that AT was doing trials on that had that pod on it. And we couldn't fly in another f 18 for whatever reason, so they said, hey. We're gonna put you in an f five.

mike: 35:59

I was like, perfect. Not a problem. The problem is is that the performance between an f five and an f 18 are much, much different, which, which I learned as we're trying to do these, you know, straight up climbs, trying to get the f 18 to roll. And then, basically, we're doing a tail slide in an f five, which,

bryan: 36:17

oh,

mike: 36:18

I've never done a tail slide in a fighter jet before. So that was quite a exhilarating experience. So it was only soon after that, I believe it was within six months that the f five was, was retired.

bryan: 36:32

Okay.

mike: 36:34

So and that's why I ended up being the last civilian to to fly in it. But I can tell you that when we were done that photo shoot, I got to experience, the true performance of an f five flying over the Cold Lake Air Weapons Range. You know, flying at low level, in the f five, I mean, that's the environment that it'd like to live. Mhmm. But this was I believe it was later in the winter, so it was really bumpy ride.

mike: 37:00

You had those thermals coming off the trees because the sun's out, but you had the snow. And it was bumpy, and we were we were right down on the deck. But it was pretty amazing flight, for my last flight in the f five.

bryan: 37:10

So Yeah. That would be so cool.

mike: 37:12

Oh, it was it was amazing. Yeah.

bryan: 37:14

Yeah. I think you're very fortunate to have been in that aircraft. I would have loved to fly in one of those, so that's awesome.

mike: 37:20

Yeah. That was one of my that was one of my favorite, you know, at that time to be able to fly in that aircraft.

bryan: 37:25

I mean, it's just such a it's such a great looking fighter.

mike: 37:29

Yeah. It's it's a sexy fighter. Right? Yeah. That's what it what it did.

mike: 37:32

It was, it was small small but mighty Yeah. With what it, what its capabilities were.

bryan: 37:37

Yeah. For sure. Your experience with fighters continued, and you were able to accumulate the most backseat time in a CF 18 of any civilian photographer. What is the coolest experience you had in an f 18?

mike: 37:50

I had several several cool experiences in the, in the f eighteen. What what kinda got my my foot in the door with the with the f eighteen community, again, everyone's seeing the the photography they have done. It started with the demo jets. So Jim Beliveau, everyone knows he was the one that was, was painting all the the jets. That would be the the demonstration team for the year, and that's where it started.

mike: 38:20

So I started photographing the demo jets. I think I photographed 12 or 14 demo jets over the years. All by, I think, two were were painted by, by Jim and his team. So I did a lot of interesting flights in the Hornet. A lot of times what would happen is that because I had built up time in the Hornet, the pilots would put me on missions that they wouldn't typically put a civilian on, especially if if a photographer because these missions, it goes back to that air sickness.

mike: 38:54

Like, they would ask me, okay. Can you handle, basic fighter maneuvers? Can you handle if we're going in and we're doing ground attack? Can you handle that stuff? Mhmm.

mike: 39:02

I mean, I would say yes. But at the same time, it was like, oh, no. I hope hope I can hold it all in

bryan: 39:07

Yeah.

mike: 39:08

Because it's some pretty aggressive flying that that's going on. And I and I can honestly say that at some point, it's not fun. Yeah. It's not fun when you're when you're doing some of this and when you're a passenger. If if you're the one in control, hey.

mike: 39:19

It's it's a lot of fun. But when you're in the back holding on, it's it's not a lot of fun.

bryan: 39:23

It's work.

mike: 39:24

It it's it is work, and it's trying to know and try to see how things are happening ahead before they before they happen. So, you know, some of the fun things that I did is that I would go up and I would do BFM. That was a lot of fun. One of the ones where we went out into a a live weapons range, I went out with, AT. This is another time I flew with with AT.

mike: 39:46

And we went out. They had just painted their CF 18 in AT colors. And they, they wanted me to get pictures of that with their tutor that was also painted in new AT colors. But I convinced them to put some some rockets and bombs on the jets. So I was in another f 18, and they put CRV seven rockets on on our jet.

mike: 40:08

And we had, I think it was Mark 80 twos, but they were just dumb bombs, concrete bombs. And, so we went out, and I'm I was photographing them, firing rockets on the range, and then I had the opportunity to fire the rockets on ours as well.

bryan: 40:24

Oh, wow.

mike: 40:24

So that yeah. So that was something that was pretty different. It wasn't long after that that the CRV seven rocket was that was phased out. So that was a lot of fun to be able to do those types of missions, and I did quite a few of those. You know, there's a couple times where you would come back from a mission, and they would they would put me up on a mission, and they would hot fuel, and they would just tell me, stay in the back of the jet.

mike: 40:46

You'll go up on the next mission. So I did that a couple of times. But I would say, actually, my my most memorable flight, I wasn't in the Hornet. I was beside the Hornet, and I was in a hawk. But what I was photographing, it was five f eighteens, at a cold lake.

mike: 41:05

And this was actually, it was 02/2018. So what made this a memorable flight is the connection with the Reno name. So it was 02/2018, '4 zero '1 squadron was celebrating its hundredth anniversary. It was also the same year that NORAD was celebrating its sixtieth anniversary. So it's not widely known that the Reno name, has, some history in the RCAF.

mike: 41:33

So I had a distant relative. His name was Edwin Reno, and Edwin flew with number one RCAF squadron during the during the Battle of Britain. Number one RCAF squadron became four zero one squadron when Canada accepted all the 400 series squadrons, during World War two.

bryan: 41:52

Okay.

mike: 41:52

So he flew a he flew a, a hurricane during the Battle of Britain. And then after the Battle of Britain, Edwin was transferred, back to Canada. He served a number of training squadrons, before he was made wing commander in Greenwood in 1944. I believe, it still holds today. He was wing commander at 27 years old.

mike: 42:13

He was the youngest wing commander ever in the RCAF.

bryan: 42:15

That's crazy.

mike: 42:16

K. So that so that was in 1944. But then he rose through the ranks over the years. He was promoted to he went on to be promoted to air vice marshal, and then he made chief of air staff for fourth Allied Tactical Air Force in NATO. So he made his way up to that position.

mike: 42:34

Then he was promoted to air marshal in July of sixty six, I believe. And then he was his final promotion was to an air marshal, but he also served as the deputy commander of NORAD between 1969 and 1972.

bryan: 42:51

Oh, wow.

mike: 42:51

So so here I am flying in the skies over Cold Lake, and I've got, four jets from four zero one squadron, and all of them are armed. So we had two jets were launched from the, from the queue, from the quick reaction alert facility in Cold Lake. They came up with a with a typical NORAD, loadout. I had two more f eighteens that were launched from 401 that they were armed in a similar air to air mission loadout. And then I had the sixtieth anniversary CF eighteen that was painted for NORAD.

mike: 43:24

And there we are flying with, with the NORAD jets and four zero one squadron. So we do the mission, which we're we were up for, it was 2.2. And, flying in the Hawk, that's an incredibly long, period of time to be able to fly, but we are literally throttled back. People think when you're doing these air to air photos that you're flying at, you know, 400 knots and it's not. You're you're throttled back.

mike: 43:50

A lot of times, you might not even be 300 knots when you're doing these photos. But what made it special is we came back and, I'm talking with the CO, lieutenant colonel, Forrest Rock. I mean, there's a fighter pilot's name if you ever heard of it, but Forrest Rock was the, he was the, commanding officer at the time. And we're talking about, you know, the history of of Edwin. And honest to God, we're in the mess.

mike: 44:15

And I look over at the wall and there's a picture of Edwin on the wall looking back And I go, that that's Edwin right there. So, you know, we do this mission, and we come back, and you're in the mess, and there's a picture of Edwin on the wall. So that was, that was a cool moment for me. And for the squadron, they didn't realize the connection. So that was, that was probably the most memorable air to air shoot I ever did.

mike: 44:41

It almost didn't come to be. I originally went out there, and it was I had the idea, hey. It's NORAD's anniversary. Let's put up some armed jets so we can illustrate to Canadians that, you know, CF eighteens aren't painted in these pretty colors all the time. They're they're painted gray.

mike: 45:00

They carry weapons. And, so I pitched the idea to, to command to say, hey, let's put up a couple of armed f eighteens to show what NORAD's about. So it was approved. But when I, the day before we were doing the the photo shoot, the, the wing or the squadron opso called. He was a US Marine Corps exchange pilot, and he said, listen, Mike.

mike: 45:26

He said, I'm sorry. You've got the demo jet to shoot. He goes, but you just lost all the other f eighteens due to operational commitments Uh-huh. Which was it happens. It's it's happened to me many times.

mike: 45:37

I'm sure it happened to you many times when you're flying the Aurora. And, and then I get a call from, from the commanding officer's squadron Forest Rock, and he said, Mike, leave it with me. We're gonna we're gonna figure this out. I walked into the briefing the next day, and I was just expecting, you know, the one f 18 pilot. Well, there was five.

mike: 45:55

And he said, well, Mike, he said, I didn't get you, you know, another f 18. I got you four more. So and because what they did is they said, hey, let's make this work. Every day, you would launch the QJets as a as part of a training training mission. So he so they just worked it out that we're gonna launch the QJets during your flight your planned flight with the demo jet, and we've got two other jets that have to go up on a training mission anyway.

mike: 46:20

So we took basically, we took all these training missions, and we brought them together to do this, to do this photo flight.

bryan: 46:26

Wow. What a story.

mike: 46:28

Yeah. It was pretty incredible. But it also again, it goes back to these guys wanted to make sure that they were getting, you know, getting in the magazines. And we did a big story on on both, on NORAD's sixtieth and on the, on the squadron's, hundredth anniversary.

bryan: 46:43

Yeah. It was kind of a everybody wins situation.

mike: 46:46

Oh, a %. And and I'll tell you, like, these these were some of the well, the picture that you're looking at right now, that was from that photo shoot with four zero one. But there's a an example where it was it was one of the I would say it was not challenging, but it was one of the most well organized photo shoots we'd ever done because we had a lot of jets moving in a lot of different directions. And to try and organize that when you're doing everyone's seen those typical photos where the jets are doing splits and you've got one jet pulling up into a vertical. You got one jet that's coming at you.

mike: 47:22

That's a lot to do, and you've only got maybe three seconds to get that photo. Wait. Because when that split starts, within three seconds, everyone's out of frame. Mhmm. Then you're you go wings level, and then you come back in, and then you you continue with your next photo.

mike: 47:36

So so that was a pretty special, pretty special photo shoot for me.

bryan: 47:40

Yeah. That's, that's interesting. And for the listeners, what we'll have to do is get Mike when we publish this episode and we promote it on social media, we'll have to get Mike to send us some of these photos so you guys can see them because it's, he's got it up in the background and it's, it's very cool. So how many squadrons and fleets from the RCAF have you flown with?

mike: 48:00

So I have flown with every single squadron in the RCAF minus four eighteen squadron, and that's only because they were recently stood up in, in Comox. And I have not flown in the Cyclone, and I have not flown in the, Husky nor the Kingfisher.

bryan: 48:19

Okay.

mike: 48:20

So those three aircraft are the only ones that

bryan: 48:22

So the the new ones, basically, like, the very new ones.

mike: 48:25

Yeah. Basically, the new ones because, I'm just simply not doing as much flying as I used to.

intro: 48:32

Right.

mike: 48:33

So you kinda think of that career progression in the air force is that you started to say as a lieutenant, you're a captain, and you're flying lots. But as you continue to move up the ranks, the amount of flying that you do starts to decrease.

bryan: 48:46

For sure.

mike: 48:47

And then before you know it, you're flying a desk. And that's essentially what's happened to me is that as as MHM Publishing has grown into what it is, you know, we have 24 full time employees with all the brands that we have. It's harder for me to get out as much as I used to.

bryan: 49:03

Yeah. That makes

mike: 49:05

sense. And I do miss it. I I I miss it. I miss getting out there. But having said that, we've got some incredible people that are kind of filling that that void.

mike: 49:14

Mhmm. You know, when we started this call, I was telling you that, we have Derek Hayes up at, up in the up in the Arctic. So he's up there, and that's something that I would have done in the past. So, I'm sure eventually I might get into one or two of those aircraft, but I'll leave it to those guys to do that now.

bryan: 49:37

So of all the aircraft you've flown in, what was your favorite? Probably a tough question.

mike: 49:44

It's a tough question, but I I tell you what, and people might be surprised when I say this. I'm gonna say the c 17.

bryan: 49:51

Oh, yeah?

mike: 49:52

Yeah. I'm gonna say the c 17 because it is one of those things because I've had the the fortunate opportunity to experience flying in all the aircraft. So I've flown in the fighters. I've I've flown with the snowbirds. I mean, you know, they've all been incredible experiences that I've had.

mike: 50:09

But the c 17 is a surprise because it's an amazing aircraft. And when you see you're sitting in the jump seat, on a c 17 and they're flying that like an f 18, it's incredible. So the best flight I had, it was the, the commanding officer of four two nine squadron at the time. He was doing his annual proficiency check. So it was a low level route that we were doing, and it was incredible.

mike: 50:35

Like, the whole flight were were low level. I don't think we were above 500 feet the whole time flying North of Trenton, flying over Algonquin. And, and we had 75 paratroopers in the back Oh, wow. Of the aircraft as well, which I'm starting to feel a little nausea coming on. And I'm standing, you know, behind the jump seat with all these nice windows to look at, and you've got all these paratroopers in the back that they were they were getting ill because we flew before we we dropped them out of the aircraft.

mike: 51:05

I believe we were flying for about an hour and a half.

bryan: 51:08

Low level?

mike: 51:09

Low level the whole time.

bryan: 51:11

That's rough. That's rough.

mike: 51:12

It was it was really rough. So it was part of the part of the mission. They're kicking out the the paratroopers over Mountain View, but then they also go in to land at Mountain View. And I can't remember the the the length of the runway that's in Mountain View, but it's essentially just long enough for the c 17. Yeah.

mike: 51:32

So to bring that aircraft in, they're landing it like you're landing on a carrier. And then the funny part of that mission was that, at the end of the runway, it's not big enough for a c 17 to turn around. So it's kinda like doing the the the 20 turn to turn the c 17 around so we could take off. But when you're sitting in that jump seat and they go full power and, and you're going down the runway and then they they pull up, it's it's incredible. You can't pull yourself out of the seat.

mike: 52:01

So it's really it's a it's an incredible aircraft, especially when you look at the size of that Mhmm. That you're flying. So that was actually, I would say, the my favorite aircraft to fly in. And part of that too is because you're not you're not with all these straps like you are in a in a fighter. Right?

mike: 52:20

So it's a little bit more mobility.

intro: 52:22

Yep.

mike: 52:23

But, yeah, that was pretty, that was a pretty awesome flight.

bryan: 52:26

Yeah. The c 17 is such a cool aircraft. If you've ever seen you were talking about the short field capabilities. If anyone of the listeners has been lucky enough to see it at an airshow where they demo that stuff, especially in a case like yours where it's empty, the short field landing and the short field takeoff capabilities are insane. Like, you would never believe that an aircraft of that size could do that in such a short distance.

mike: 52:49

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that's what's it's incredible about that. And I and I think that, they haven't done too many demos with the aircraft.

mike: 52:57

If anything, you always see the US Air Force come up to the air shows, and you see them do their demo routines. But you have a team dedicated specifically to doing, you know, air show routines with that. Yep. But, yeah, it's truly, truly amazing aircraft. It's too bad we don't have more of them.

bryan: 53:12

Yeah. I think the, the crews would agree with that. They're they're always in demand.

mike: 53:17

Oh, yeah. I I believe that they are probably one of the most tasked aircraft in the, in the RCF fleet.

bryan: 53:24

Yeah. Without a doubt. Okay, Mike. That's gonna wrap up part one of our chat. Thanks so much for your time today, and thanks for, being on the show.

bryan: 53:31

And I'm looking forward to the next one.

mike: 53:33

Great. Looking forward to it, Brian.

bryan: 53:36

Alright. That wraps up our merger announcement as well as the first part of our chat with Mike Reno. Listeners can check out our next episode where we will finish talking to Mike all about his career flying air to air photography with the RCAF, including his many adventures and stories, as well as how they got into the publishing game. Do you have any questions or comments about anything you've heard in this episode? Would you or someone you know make a great guest, or do you have an idea for a show?

bryan: 54:01

You can reach out to us at the pilotprojectpodcast@gmail.com or on all social media at at podpilotproject. Listeners should also check out our social media channels to see our many awesome videos featuring RCAF aircraft. As always, we'd like to thank you for listening to the show and ask for your help with the big three. That's like and follow us on social media, share with your friends, and follow us and rate us five stars wherever you get your podcasts. That's all for now.

bryan: 54:27

Thanks for listening. Keep the blue side up. See you.