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Bryan: 00:28

Hey, everybody. This is your host, Brian Morrison, with a graphic content warning. This episode contains the vivid description of the death of a child. While we considered removing this portion of the show, we wanted to convey the realities of what search and rescue crews regularly deal with. It is a life and death business, and we wanted to stay true to that.

Bryan: 00:49

However, if you would rather not hear it, this occurs following the discussion on the difficulties of remaining emotionally detached from the mission. This happens from minute thirty to minute thirty and eight seconds. With that being said, please enjoy the show. Fuel ignition switches, on RPM switches. Set PD switches.

Bryan: 01:10

Normal doors and hatches. Closed lay down. Strobe light on. Research check-in the fleet clear left. Engineer, start number two.

Bryan: 01:17

Starting two. Wing three ten, pilot project broadcast. Clear takeoff runway Alright. We're ready for departure here at the Pilot Project Podcast, the best source for stories and advice from RCAF and Mission Aviation Pilots brought to you by Sky's Magazine. I'm your host, Brian Morrison, and today we are doing a very special on location interview in 19 Wing Comox, BC with Lieutenant Colonel Francois Pasquel, CO of four forty two Transport and Rescue Squadron, Lieutenant Colonel Luke Coates, CO of four eighteen Search and Rescue Operational Training Squadron, and Major Dan Fox, a qualified Kingfisher pilot who is a subject matter expert on the c two ninety five.

Bryan: 02:04

Gentlemen, welcome to the show, and thank you for having me here in nineteen Wing.

Luc: 02:07

Thanks for having us.

Bryan: 02:09

Today, we will be talking about our three guests early careers and flight training experience, and then we'll be diving into an in-depth conversation about the c two ninety five Kingfisher. Something I always like to establish is what started you down the road of pursuing aviation as a career. So where did that start for you all?

Dan: 02:25

Aviation as a career. I would say when I was very young, it's a funny one, I had a real keen obsession with machines. Everything I saw in my house growing up, chainsaws, eventually begging for motorbikes, bikes and heavy equipment and driving the cars around the driveway when I was 12 and four by fours and one of those machines was in the basement, I got to look up in the rafters and see all these kind of old remote control airplanes. My dad and his brother had a real fascination with planes and basically, truly the start of it was I asked him to drag a plane out of the attic or sorry, the rafters and could we please put it together as remote control, start flying it. It became one of those projects and he did and we did and got together and started building and crashing planes for the next several years and learning and trying to make my own and that's what got going there.

Dan: 03:29

Plus, like I said, my dad and his brother, they got into a couple old private aircraft. Super exciting for me to tag along. We pulled a almost moss covered plane out of the field at Victoria Airport at Blanca, Cruise Air Senior. They got to fly in a short period of time and I remember riding in the back seat of it being scared and excited at the same time that they had got it going and it was flying and it went from there. It just, yeah, love of machines, flying got built into that and it built into eventually signing up to be a pilot.

Bryan: 04:05

Really? That's awesome. That's like a very unique answer. I haven't heard one yet where it started with, like, remote control aircraft and just a love of machines and stuff. So that's really cool.

Bryan: 04:16

What about you, Francois?

Francois: 04:18

Yeah. I didn't know anything about aviation. I I jumped into a recruiting center one day completely randomly. I had I was really good in science back in high school, so I went to the recruiting center. I said, hey.

Francois: 04:30

I'm interested in a job. They said, well, you're good in science. Do you wanna become an engineer? I became an engineer in the military, an aerospace engineer. And a few years after, with some some background here as an engineer, I swapped to pilot.

Francois: 04:44

There's a bit of a story there, actually. So I was I was working back in Ottawa, and I I had a bit of a a dream, like a daydream, where I was flying a helicopter and doing SAR in that daydream, and I came back to the office a few days after, and I said, wanna swap to to search and rescue. So I went search and rescue, and I've been flying ever since.

Bryan: 05:04

That's awesome. How about you, Luke?

Luc: 05:08

When I was a a kid, I remember my grandfather telling me stories of, of him flying the Lancaster in World War two as a pilot officer. And when he would tell me these stories, his eyes would light up with joy and passion. He had a very good a great experience, a highlight of his life, and that really inspired me, got me curious about flying. Just like Dan, I also love everything remote control and cars and operating, any equipment. A combination of both led me to to wanna be a pilot in the RCF.

Bryan: 05:41

Wow. So it was kind of in your blood a little. Perhaps. Yeah. For Dan and Francois, what brought each of you to the CAF to pursue that career in aviation?

Dan: 05:50

You know, I didn't have the idea in my mind growing up at all to be in the military. I will say that my grandfather, my mother's father served in World War II. He was an absolutely amazing person. So he was a mosquito mechanic. I'd say that was an inspiration that probably solidified the idea anyway, but I would say it was pretty random.

Dan: 06:14

Was preparing to go to UVic. What I wanted to do was engineering there. I also love business and stocks went on as well, but I was heading there and I heard a commercial on the radio that kind of outlined you could do the same thing, but paid for and have no debts come out of the other end. And that pretty much listening to that little radio, I think I was going to clean a pool. I was like a pool boy for work.

Dan: 06:38

And I was like, man, that's not a bad plan. I called them up and it was all in a very short order period late. Called them up, they're like, you are late. In a week, we're putting people on to go or something. They're like, we'll check, come in tomorrow.

Dan: 06:53

And then the whole thing was sort of flash to bang in days. And they're like, it's working, you're going, oh, wow. So no time to think, basically.

Bryan: 07:02

That's crazy. I remember the person

Dan: 07:03

saying, like, yes or no on the literal phone call. Like, are you you gotta be kidding. Like, okay. I gotta call you back in the morning. And since I guess that's their tactic or something.

Dan: 07:12

And I was like anyway, the next morning, said, yes. And then I told my folks, I think, kind of at that point

Luc: 07:17

Mhmm.

Bryan: 07:18

My parents are like, what? Did they know you'd applied?

Dan: 07:21

They knew I applied, but I think, you know, my mom, she's amazing, and she's probably like, you know, we're a tight family. Oh my gosh, he's leaving is probably the primary thought, right? He's going. For sure. That was sad.

Dan: 07:35

But they've been very happy for me, I'd say. It was that simple.

Bryan: 07:38

It's crazy that it worked out that well because like, right place, right time. So many people who want to join the pilot trade end up waiting years sometimes. Right? Like I got in really easily, same thing, right place, right time. My buddy applied a few months later.

Bryan: 07:52

I think it was like three years before he got in.

Dan: 07:54

I'll say for the future prospects that, you know, for the audience, they said, sounds good, but guess what? You could probably be a pilot in the future. For now, you're in the armor. And so actually, they sent me to be in the armor, know, get ready to have some fun with tanks and I said, okay, well, pilot's what I'm looking for and they said that's not a problem, just go there and tell them you want to be a pilot once you get there. There's obviously a story behind that but by about a year later through hook and crook and a little bit of poking and pushing, they did switch me over.

Bryan: 08:26

That's crazy. Yeah. One for

Dan: 08:28

one swap actually was somebody who read like a John Grisham book about commanding tanks, decided they didn't wanna be a pilot. And I was like, I would like to be a pilot. So we did a one for one swap.

Francois: 08:39

I've I've known Dan for fifteen years and already in five minutes, I know more of

Bryan: 08:43

you.

Dan: 08:43

Yeah. Yeah. Good fortune. You know, luck is a part of it. Work is a part of it.

Bryan: 08:49

And, what about you, Francois?

Francois: 08:51

Yeah. Well, I was like the CAF itself it's the CAF in military aviation is kinda two different answers there. The the CAF, I just wanted to step into something that was meaningful. So as an engineer, I just deployed to Bosnia. I was the flight commander there.

Francois: 09:04

And when I came back, I switched to pilots really because of the operational sense of purpose. I had the choice at some point in my career to switch to civilian pilot. I also looked at even becoming a professional rock climber, is unrelated to to CAF. Really? Yeah.

Francois: 09:25

And we can get into the details later on, but eventually I I I went to the the pilot side of things just for that operational purpose, and and the team aspect of of working together with professionals.

Bryan: 09:37

Okay. When each of you look back on your early days of flight training, what is the biggest lesson that each of you learned that you carried forward with you as pilots? Do wanna start, Francois? Sure. Yeah.

Francois: 09:47

I think, like, two things stick out. First, respect your limits and respect the limits of the aircraft. That's something that I learned on like, learned very early on in my career. And b, if you're not having fun, you're doing it wrong. So those are the two things that stick out from early aviation career.

Bryan: 10:03

Yeah. That having fun lesson is so important because it's so easy to get really stressed out or, you know, you're often you're working extremely hard in the pilot world and you can really start to feel worn down and forget, like, this is an amazing job.

Francois: 10:18

Absolutely. 100%. Yeah.

Bryan: 10:20

How about you, Luke?

Luc: 10:22

I'd say the time prepping for flights ahead of time, being ready, studying pays dividend.

Bryan: 10:31

Mhmm.

Luc: 10:32

That's the biggest biggest lessons that I still carry to this day when I go fly. I wanna make sure I'm ready. And then you feel much better, you perform better, you have more fun, because I also agree. You're not having fun, you're not doing it right. Big proponent of that.

Luc: 10:45

But, you still have to put the work into it.

Bryan: 10:47

100%. Yeah. Walking into a flight unprepared is a super uncomfortable feeling. And it's not you won't make it very far if that's how

Luc: 10:55

you're Definitely

Bryan: 10:56

things. Like, some people, maybe early in their training, can get by on raw talent, but that only takes you so far, especially once you're operational.

Luc: 11:03

And it's unfair to your other crew members of

Dan: 11:06

100%.

Luc: 11:06

Right? They expect you to to deliver your you know, to bring a lot of effort and to perform to the max of your abilities. And if you're not doing that, it's it's unfair to them.

Bryan: 11:16

Yep. I agree. How about you, Dan?

Dan: 11:19

I agree with everything they said. And maybe the one thing I'll add in, and I think it took me through, I had to get a little bit older to figure it out, but there's a feedback mechanism. When you're going to learn accepting fault with the people you're working with and being positive and engaged with the people teaching you and around you, like showing respect to your peers and instructors and listening to them and doing your best to sort of put your ego aside because it's very personal in pilot training. They're like, we went out today. These are the things that you need to do to improve.

Dan: 11:52

And it took me time to meditate my way to the point where I'm listening properly, I'm there, I'm taking in what they're saying, and you know what, they were in a good position to watch, and now I'll go attack the problem. As opposed to working in my own mind to say like, well, I don't know if it was quite like that. And that's how I entered training. And I think I exited with this total relief in realizing that if I just accept it, but then work hard and start attacking what their issues were and what they want me to do, it was this incredible feedback mechanism because I'd walk in the instructor the next day and be like, I can see that you listened. I can see that you studied and this is amazing.

Dan: 12:32

Let's go try it again. And sure enough, their advice often worked and we'd go and they felt good. I felt good. It's a funny thing, right? It works in university.

Dan: 12:40

It was the same. You engage the teacher and they're like, wow, you're interested. And then they're interested in you. And I try to teach that, you know, to my family and my kids. I mean, that loop is incredible.

Bryan: 12:52

Mhmm.

Dan: 12:53

It's a snippet. I totally agree with what those guys said. But for me, learning to learn has been a big deal too.

Bryan: 13:00

Yeah. And going back to what you're saying about like when you receive that criticism, it's really challenging at first, but like the best thing you can say when your instructor tells you what you did wrong is like, yes, sir. Yes, ma'am. And go and work on that. Like, don't try to convince yourself why it really wasn't that big a deal or here's what I was thinking and that's why it's okay.

Bryan: 13:19

Because it's really tempting to, like, make excuses. Yep. But you just have to accept, this is their way. We're gonna do it their way. And and that's what you have to do.

Dan: 13:27

Yeah. Maybe clarify in a positive way. Like Sure. You don't have to just pander to it, but reiterate, is this what you mean? You know?

Dan: 13:35

And get more from them maybe. But, yeah, roll with them and do it for them.

Luc: 13:41

Yeah. I would say even when you're at the top of your game, flying lots, higher rank, you know, standards for the whole fleet, I would still go and ask the most junior person on the crew if there's anything I could do to improve on or any anything that they they might have seen. And they often have great points, and you you do always you can always get much better, more effective, safer. I think it becomes dangerous if you you wanna create you wanna create that environment where people feel comfortable mentioning, you know, things that could have been done better. Even if it's a much higher rank or much more senior person, it's very important to to have that culture.

Luc: 14:19

And, if you think you're done learning or know everything, it's probably time for you to hang up the the flying gloves.

Bryan: 14:25

Yeah. Absolutely. It's critical.

Luc: 14:26

It's it's good to try and embrace that culture of always self improving and listening to everyone.

Bryan: 14:32

Yep. That's why we debrief after every flight. Right?

Luc: 14:34

Exactly.

Bryan: 14:36

So now we're gonna dive into more of each of your careers, starting with Francois. Lieutenant colonel Francois Pascal graduated from the Royal Military College in February. After completing aerospace engineering officer training, he was posted to four thirty tactical helicopter squadron becoming the deputy squadron air maintenance engineering officer. He deployed to Bosnia in 2001 as the maintenance flight commander of the NATO Griffin detachment and was responsible for humanitarian projects in Northern Bosnia. Upon completing a postgraduate degree from Laval University in 02/2006, Francois was posted to Ottawa and charged with the management of several research and development projects.

Bryan: 15:13

In 02/2008, he was nominated as executive assistant to the director general of aerospace engineering program management and continued in this role for nearly two years. In 02/2009, he was selected for an occupation transfer to pilot. Upon flight training graduation, Francois was posted to four four two search and rescue squadron in Comox BC to fly the CH one forty nine Cormorant helicopter. Throughout a five year period, he held the positions of unit flight safety officer and pilot lead and completed numerous challenging search and rescue missions on Canada's mountainous West Coast. In 02/2016, Francois was posted to Gander, Newfoundland, appointed as deputy commanding officer of one zero three SAR Squadron and followed on to assume command of the squadron in 02/2018.

Bryan: 15:54

Over the course of three years, he continued to perform as aircraft commander on the CA twenty forty nine Cormorant and was responsible to lead the SAR Squadron in the demanding operational environment of the East Coast and Arctic. In 02/2019, Francois was posted to the directorate of air requirements assigned as deputy project director of the Cormorant Midlife Upgrade as well as project director of several minor capital acquisition projects. He was assigned in 2022 to the Canadian Joint Operations Command as j three SAR, where he extensively coordinated with all SAR CAF entities, other government departments, and international partners, ensuring that the SAR mandate remained at the forefront of Canadian operations and policies. He is currently the commanding officer of four four two SAR and transport squadron and amongst other challenges led the implementation and operationalization of the new c two ninety five Kingfisher fixed wing SAR aircraft in the Victoria Search And Rescue Region, standing up the first main operating base across Canada. Francois is a graduate of the joint command and staff program.

Bryan: 16:54

He holds a bachelor's degree in space sciences, a master in electro optical engineering, and a master in defense studies. He has completed 140 operational SAR missions and is a licensed commercial airplane pilot and airline transport helicopter pilot. Francois is extremely privileged to have the support of his wonderful spouse, Marie Yves, and two awesome children, Delaya and Antoine. So, Francois, you deployed to Bosnia in 2001 as the maintenance flight commander of the NATO Griffin detachment. What was that experience like for you?

Francois: 17:24

It was very unique. I was extremely young, right out of university. The the contingent was deployed the day nine eleven happened. I I vividly remember that. So the morning of 09:11, we were in Trenton an hour before embarking in the Airbus, the military Airbus to go to Bosnia.

Francois: 17:44

Nine eleven had just happened, and we looked at each other like, okay, either we're not going or we're going in a hurry and into a war zone. We ended up so as you know, all the airways were blocked off in the world. The day after, the airways opened up only for military flight, so we got into Bosnia the day after, so twenty four hours after. And then, yeah, it was a very immersive experience. I was a lieutenant, a young lieutenant.

Francois: 18:09

I relied on I learned leadership. So I was a flight commander. We I was I was leading techs. I had aircraft to manage and so on. I learned from my CO there.

Francois: 18:17

I learned from my master warrant officer. I remember him, an old, crusty master warrant officer Slater. I remember his name, Tony Slater. For me, he was probably, like, 75 years old, but in reality, he was probably 58

Bryan: 18:29

or something.

Francois: 18:29

Yeah. I learned immensely from him. He he taught me the basic of leadership. I loved it. I also was involved in humanitarian aid in Northern Bosnia, so that gave me a very perspective, a different perspective.

Francois: 18:43

It allowed me to understand that Canada here we are privileged. We are one of the most beautiful and peaceful country on earth. Bosnia and Kosovo had just been destroyed by war. We were rebuilding it and we were taking care of the country so it was an eye opening. But I learned leadership.

Francois: 19:00

I learned teamwork. An anecdote from that is, so I was deployed for seven months, and during longer deployments you have an LTA where you can leave for two weeks, relax somewhere, and I went on to Australia for two weeks, and out there, you need to think this is like 02/2001, so this is before like the beards and the long hair, so this was a very and we were on an infantry camp in Bosnia. I went to Australia with two buddies, and I bleached my hair orange, like bright orange, like Ronald McDonald orange. I came back on the camp after that LTA, and the colonel who was a Vendoux, an infantryman, saw me, and with a jag, they wanted to RTB me to Canada. They were like, no.

Francois: 19:40

That that aviator, that young lieutenant, we do not want that person on the camp. He is rebellious and so on. So my CO stepped up and said, look, I'm gonna take care of this young lieutenant Pascal. He has orange hair right now. We'll shave him completely off.

Francois: 19:57

We still need him in Bosnia. We will not return him to Canada. So that evening, I shaved my hair to, like, zero, like, completely completely bald. But in a sign of teamwork, all the other air crew of the helicopter detachment shaved their hair as well. So we were a bunch of, like, 15 people completely shaved hair.

Francois: 20:19

We stepped into the cafeteria the next morning, and, and things went on fire at that point, because now, now the camp, the infantry people thought that we were being rebellious against the, the, the infantry officers, so again, the CO stepped in, protected his people, and and things went on, but it was it was an interesting way of learning, learning military life, let's put it that way, and I learned from the leadership of that CO back back then.

Bryan: 20:46

I was gonna say it sounds like you had some really, really good, mentors.

Francois: 20:50

Yeah. Fantastic. They took care of their people, and that's what I I try to strive to now as a CO.

Bryan: 20:57

Yeah. That's awesome. Now we've talked about the fact that you switched from an aerospace engineer to a pilot. Did you find it challenging to switch from a support to an operator mindset?

Francois: 21:07

No. I actually had zero problems, honestly. My my nature is very decisive driven. I'm a rock climber. Like, on my personal life, I'm a rock climber, so I deal with risk management, with decisions, with time factors and so on.

Francois: 21:25

So actually being an engineer was a bit of a challenge to me. I had talent, I was good in school, but I felt that as an engineer things wouldn't improve or wouldn't go forward as fast as I'd like to, so doing the switch to an operational pilot in the military was actually, it was like a little little fish in a in in a bowl. I was I was happy. I was able now to manage risk, to lead crews, both tactically and operationally, so no no issues there at all.

Bryan: 21:54

Yeah. It gave you a chance for more of like a hands on decisive experience.

Francois: 21:58

Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And the engineering background helped me make those decisions as an operational tactical aviator.

Bryan: 22:05

How how would you say that was? Like, in what ways did it help you?

Francois: 22:08

Well, I I now understood the processes behind the engineering decisions, the designs of an aircraft, the the procedures, the policies, the regulations, the just an example, like, why why does an MEL exist?

Bryan: 22:22

For the listeners, an MEL is a minimum equipment list and is basically a list of the minimum equipment that you must have functional to go flying.

Francois: 22:30

And why those items are listed and in what order and so on. So all all that background information that stems from an engineering support, I was able to understand and explain to my crew and make decisions, highlighted decisions based on the background of that engineering.

Bryan: 22:48

Yeah. So it kind of gave you, like, a broader breadth of experience and ability to kind of understand the reasons, you know, what's going on behind the curtain and why those decisions are made.

Francois: 22:57

Yeah. Understand the aircraft, the policies, and, you know, there's the MELS. So in SAR, we we're obviously bound to all the the aviation regulations, but but we are able to temporarily deviate from a certain rule if it's in if it's to save a life. Yeah. But that decision cannot be taken lightly, and it needs to be justified if we need to deviate it deviate from a rule to save a life.

Francois: 23:22

So I think that engineering background allowed me to make some decisions in my career, that were justifiable to save a life.

Luc: 23:31

Okay. When Francois and I were young captains together on squadron, sometimes we would have, engineering engineers tell us that limitations would change, or we would have whatever changes came down for x y reasons, and Francois was able to explain to us why this was happening and the reasoning behind it, and it just helped us accept and understand the reasons and would have more buy in. So it was nice to have someone to bridge the the gap between engineers and operators.

Bryan: 23:58

It kinda gives you that warm fuzzy when they're telling you something, and then you can you can kind of buy into it when you actually understand why and what's Why going

Luc: 24:06

why are we why are they all of a sudden give putting this limitation on us? Yeah. Which is frustrating as an operator. You don't want it. And then Haso really takes time to explain it to an operator and like, oh.

Bryan: 24:17

Or even the opposite of that when it's like, why are why are they suddenly willing to accept this risk? Like, why is this okay?

Luc: 24:23

Absolutely. Yeah. Bang on.

Bryan: 24:25

Your first operational posting was here in Comox at four four two Transport and Rescue Squadron flying the CH one forty nine Kormorant. What were those early days like for you as a pilot?

Francois: 24:35

Learning to become an aircraft commander, really was the highlight of it, obviously. But learning to fly the the machine in the mountains. You know, I was brought into the mountains. This is the only thing I knew, so I understood. Tried to learn to become one with the machine, with the asset in the mountains, and to manage risk as well.

Francois: 24:56

So flying in the mountains like you did last night or yesterday afternoon at a sunset is a safe environment, but now to prosecute a SAR mission at night in steep valleys on night vision goggles in less than ideal weather conditions on bingo fuel, and so on and so on. So that that that was my first experience of understanding the limitations of my my personal limits, the limitations of my crew, the limitations and the capabilities of the asset, and and just learning to to lead tactically and to to tap into the subject matter experts of the aircrew and to prosecute a mission safely and effectively.

Bryan: 25:36

Yeah. So yesterday, for the listeners, I was able to I was lucky enough to go for a flight on the two ninety five. And having a chance to see the terrain and see the places you guys operate, I was blown away. Because it's beautiful. Like you said, it was an evening flight.

Bryan: 25:53

The weather was good. The air was calm. And it was it was almost like sightseeing. But I can only imagine in rough conditions at night going and operating in those environments. It must be really intimidating, especially at first.

Francois: 26:06

Yeah. And it speaks to training. We we train our crews, immensely. So we don't I'm not I didn't jump in to the tightest of the valleys early on in my career, but with experience, with training, with respect, with step by step processes, you're able to push the capability with always keeping it out, and that's what I learned early on in my career is becoming one, and I know it's kind of cliche, but becoming one with the machine and the crew, and understanding the power of teamwork, and trusting your team leader, your team member, the co pilot, the flight engineer, and prosecuting a mission safely, and being able to turn down a mission if it's going to be unsafe. Right.

Francois: 26:51

So and that is, I think, the biggest learning point that I learned early on is sometimes you you have to say no to a mission. It's not often that we turn down a mission, but sometimes you have to say no because the danger is just too elevated.

Bryan: 27:04

That must be a really tough call to make. It's super tough.

Francois: 27:07

It's it's one of the toughest. Yeah.

Luc: 27:09

Yeah. The first time is very hard. I found for myself the first time turning down a mission, it goes against everything in you, but it does get easier as as your career goes on. And keeping your crew safe and bringing folks back home safe is is priority number one.

Bryan: 27:26

And I would imagine that you become more comfortable with weighing risk. And you as you gain experience, you kind of know, oh, this is one of those missions where we just can't do this.

Francois: 27:38

Yeah. Exactly. You see many missions throughout a career. So eventually, intuitively, you know Mhmm. If you can do that mission or not.

Francois: 27:46

And you don't need to really explain it to anyone. You you just you know that that mission can be prosecuted safely or right away, you know, like, no. This this is not gonna happen tonight because because of x x factors.

Luc: 28:00

Yeah. Yeah.

Francois: 28:01

And so maybe back to that original question, what did I learn? I also learned to cope with emotions.

Bryan: 28:08

Mhmm.

Francois: 28:09

You know, we people look at SAR as these platforms, whether it's the helicopter or the fixed wing where we save people, but it's not, unfortunately always the case, and you know I'm looking at Luke here, and maybe Luke doesn't really remember this one, but one of my first missions as a co pilot Luke was the aircraft commander. We we went on to do a mission, and the father of a very young girl had drowned. So I at the time, I had young kids at home, and I kind of put myself in the shoes of the mother that saw the father drown and so on and so on. I emotionally, that drained me that night. Mhmm.

Francois: 28:46

So I I learned to cope with some situations that are not always favorable.

Bryan: 28:52

Do you remember that one?

Luc: 28:53

Is that the one in the straits not far from here? Yeah. Yeah. I I do remember it well. But for sure having kids now I have three kids of my own, and that was before I had kids.

Luc: 29:03

And missions do affect you differently after you have children of your own.

Bryan: 29:10

Yeah. I've I've heard that from quite a few people in the star world that the hardest thing is when there's kids involved in some way, whether they're the person you're looking for or, you know, it's their mom or dad or or what have you that especially if you have kids, that that is extremely difficult. From what I understand, like people do learn to try to separate themselves from the emotional side of missions, and maybe you guys can speak to that. But, it sounds like there are certain situations where it's it's really difficult to do that.

Francois: 29:38

Yeah. I think in in, like, in real time during the STAR mission, during the the tasking itself, most people I'll I'll speak for myself, I guess. Most people are able to to focus on prosecute the mission. It's after the fact. Once you've landed, once you've debriefed, I think of one mission again, like, this was a 14 year old girl back in in Newfoundland that had fallen off a cliff.

Francois: 30:05

She opened up her skull and was deceased. So we brought the body back, but I I always remember that image of this 14 year old girl in a white dress at the base of a cliff in a bit of a water pool. That was really hard for me after the mission because my daughter was 12 years old back home. So so there was that emotional link, but it it only became apparent to me after the mission was finished when I went back home. How did you process that?

Francois: 30:35

And now that I think about it, it's pretty tough. Yeah. Yeah. Just talking about it, you know, hugging my kids.

Dan: 30:42

Compartmentalizing. Yeah.

Bryan: 30:44

That's hard.

Francois: 30:45

Yeah. So and my my wife's super supportive too, supportive as well. So, yeah, it's it's talking about it and and actually having buddies like like Dan and Luke. And we we all go through the same career. We all we all try to save lives to the best of our capabilities, but sometimes it just doesn't happen Mhmm.

Francois: 31:05

That way. So sharing sharing stories, I think, is probably the best way of of of coping with that emotion.

Bryan: 31:12

Helping to process the grief and

Dan: 31:13

yeah. Therapy. That's to me, that's how I think of it. Speaking out loud generally is therapeutic for me to the right people. Yeah.

Dan: 31:21

Just soundboarding it off of somebody.

Bryan: 31:23

Yeah. When it's like a a safe place with people you trust and who who can understand.

Dan: 31:28

Mhmm.

Bryan: 31:28

Yeah. Your second tour on the Cormorant was to one zero three Search and Rescue Squadron in Gander, Newfoundland as the deputy commanding officer in 02/2016. You assumed command of the squadron for your next posting in 02/2018. Now isn't it pretty rare for someone to go directly from DCO to CO in the same unit?

Francois: 31:46

So actually, in 01/2003, it's a bit of a it's a bit of a trend. Okay. In the last ten years, I'd say, the DCO has normally or historically, been DCO for either one or two years and become the CO. So it's almost more of, like, succession planning. Yeah.

Francois: 32:03

Succession planning. One zero three Squadron in Gander, Newfoundland is a very unique area to, to work in. Challenging weather conditions. The the North Atlantic is is unreal. Like, I I had never imagined something as as ferocious as the Northern Atlantic.

Francois: 32:20

So it comes, and and one zero three Squadron is an operation it's a smaller operational base. Missions are very frequent as well. So all that to say the DCO has historically become the CO

Dan: 32:34

Okay.

Francois: 32:34

Based on the experience built as the DCO. Okay. So it's not something unique. Very humbling for me. I came from the mountainous background where I became very proficient in mountains.

Francois: 32:46

I was able to do SAR in some complex terrain, topography, and weather, And the morning I stepped foot at 01:03 in Gander, extremely humbling. And I'll always remember my first operational mission in the Atlantic, and it was nothing complicated. It was, like, day VFR, just normal quote unquote weather, but this fishing boat was just being rocked like I had never imagined. And I arrived to the stern of it in the rest, so helicopter kind of coming to a hover position just off of the vessel, and this this vessel was going up and down maybe maybe ten, fifteen feet smaller fishing vessel, and you have two crew members on the deck holding to one portion of the the the vessel being rocked. And and I looked at the vessel.

Francois: 33:35

I was wondering, how am I going to put a Sartech on that boat? It's for me, was impossible. It was so humbling, but step by step, working with a flight engineer and understanding how those boats, work, how they dance with with the seas, became a reality. And after a year or two, I became very comfortable in that in that environment.

Bryan: 33:59

Okay. The Atlantic is crazy. Like, I don't I flew the Aurora in Greenwood, so I I didn't see it from a SAR perspective. But it was the power of of that water is amazing. Like, we would do flights sometimes and we'd be at 1,500 feet and we'd come back covered in salt spray and need to take the Aurora through the birdbath.

Bryan: 34:20

Like, it's it is crazy. Your last posting before being back here as CO of four forty two Squadron was j three SAR officer at Canadian Joint Operations Command or CJOC. Can you translate j three SAR into plain speak for us and tell us about that job?

Francois: 34:35

Yeah. For sure. So CJOC, the operational command, is the force employment entity entity of of the the Canadian Armed Forces. They employ everything that has to do with domestic employment and expeditionary. So J3 SAR is so search and rescue falls under the force employment of that command.

Francois: 34:52

So the the role of the j c three SAR is to well, first to look at all the policies, regulations, make sure that SAR is still up to the standard of international policies. The search and rescue regions fall under the control, the operational control of the the commander of CGOC as well. So all that is taken care of. We also accumulate statistics, historical statistics to make sure that SAR is still relevant, to see if new equipment is required, if the SAR posture needs to be modified. We write the search and rescue directive for Canada.

Francois: 35:25

So things like that. We work with Canadian Coast Guard partners. SAR is a systems of systems in Canada, so it's not only the CAF. Actually, CAF is just a small portion of SAR, but SAR is federal, provincial, municipal, regional, private, and so on and so on. So we keep all of those stakeholders together, and we make sure that we network, that all SAR partners are in lockstep to make sure that SAR in Canada is as efficient as it is, and I can speak from my my witness perspective as J three SAR, Canada is of the highest standard in the world.

Francois: 36:02

Like, many, many countries look at Canada as the goal to be in SAR. Really? Yeah. Wow.

Bryan: 36:10

As J three SAR, how did coordinating all SAR CAF entities, other government departments, and international partners prepare you to be the CEO of a search and rescue squadron?

Francois: 36:19

It prepared me very well immensely. Honestly, knowing the protocols, knowing the policies, understanding why SAR exists, how it exists, the five w's essentially of SAR, gave me that perspective that as a CO four forty two, I can explain to the crews at four forty two why we do SAR, why we have a posture, why it's a twenty four seven posture. So all all the reasoning behind SAR, how it was implemented since the nineteen forties, all stems to how how I could explain, lead, and take care of the personnel, and and and decisions are still being made in real time from the CGOC perspective, so I'm able to translate that to the tactical air crew and the technicians and explain why we've changed the posture or why the government has decided to to to modify a SAR aspect of things.

Bryan: 37:12

Okay. So almost similar to when you had your background from being an Aerie and then becoming a pilot.

Francois: 37:17

Like, it

Bryan: 37:17

sort of gave you that breadth of knowledge.

Francois: 37:19

Absolutely. 100%. Yeah. Exactly.

Bryan: 37:22

So circling around to kind of the big reason we're here today, which is to talk about the two ninety five. As a helicopter pilot, how are you ensuring you are well informed with the world of fixed wing operations when it comes to operating the C295? I do

Francois: 37:35

it by osmosis. I I'm like, personally, I'm very interested to self educate myself. The Kingfisher has been in a transition up until the first May twenty twenty five, so I've learned a lot about the Kingfisher. Before making a decision, I wanna make sure that that decision is justified and it's educated, so I will rely on my subject matter experts, if needed, before making a decision, making sure that people are taken care of. So so really self educating, being back in CGOC, and having the I was always I was also posted at the directorate of air requirements back a few years before CGOC.

Francois: 38:14

So that gave me the PMO aspect of things, the the project officer aspect of things. And with the CGOC aspect as well, all integrating that information allows me to make decisions focused on the fixed wing SAR.

Bryan: 38:29

Okay. So thanks for all that, Francois. That was awesome. We're gonna move on and, talk to Luke. Lieutenant colonel Luke Coates was born in Rocky Mountain House, Alberta and moved to Gatineau, Quebec at the age of five, where he stayed until he finished high school.

Bryan: 38:44

Inspired by his grandfather, a pilot officer during World War two, he joined the Canadian Armed Forces at the age of 17. He graduated from the Royal Military College in 2006 with a bachelor's degree in computer science. After completing pilot training, Luke was posted to four four two transport and rescue squadron in 02/2009, where he eventually became an aircraft commander on the CH one forty nine cormorant. In 02/2013, he was posted to one zero three search and rescue squadron in Gander, Newfoundland, serving as the operations officer and chief check pilot. In 02/2017, he was promoted to the rank of major and posted back to Comox where he joined the SAR standards and evaluation team as the national standard evaluator for the CH one forty nine Cormorant fleet.

Bryan: 39:25

In 02/2020, he had the privilege of becoming the commandant of the Canadian Forces School of Search and Rescue or CIFSAR and accumulated 100 parachute jumps. Luke is nearing 4,000 flying hours and has completed over a 150 SAR missions. Promoted to his current rank in 02/2023, he spent the last year earning a master of defense studies from RMC. An avid outdoor enthusiast, he enjoys mountain biking, snowboarding, camping, and floating down the Puntledge River. Luke's favorite pastime is spending time with his family, his wife, Megan, and their three daughters, Lennon, Meili, and Lumi.

Bryan: 39:58

Luke, you have over thirty five hundred hours on the CH one forty nine Kormoran and have completed over 150 SAR missions. That's a ton of experience. What is the biggest lesson you've learned about conducting SAR operations?

Luc: 40:09

It's funny. As you ask me that question, there are two individuals that come to mind. One is, sergeant Dan Corkery, a very experienced flight engineer that Francois and I both had the pleasure to serve and work with in Gander, Newfoundland at one zero three squadron. Very, experienced flight engineer. You know, he remained at the rank of sergeant.

Luc: 40:36

He mentored, I would say, every officer that went through there. There's him, and then there's sergeant Steph Clavette, a senior Sartech currently at the at CSAR Canadian Forces School of Search and Rescue. And they both taught me the same lesson, which and Steph would say this, slow smooth and smooth is fast. Mhmm. That's the biggest lesson where, you know, you're pretty motivated to get there and get in there quickly, get the job done as fast as you can, get the person to the hospital.

Luc: 41:09

However, when you rush and are trying to conduct the mission quicker, it ends up being slower and riskier and things don't go as planned. Mhmm. So the biggest lesson in that, I can see being debriefed by Dan. Even though I was aircraft commander, he said it politely, but that we rushed into it perhaps a bit more. Maybe I was comfortable with the speed that I was going at, but perhaps some other crew members were not.

Luc: 41:34

Another great lesson.

Bryan: 41:35

Mhmm.

Luc: 41:36

Same thing with with staff. So just to to go in one step at a time, ensuring comms are super clear with everybody, you end up being a lot more effective and a lot faster.

Bryan: 41:48

For sure. And I think for listeners, especially those who are in the pilot world, that saying slow is smooth and smooth is fast is a favorite of mine for a long time now. It's just so true. Like you will make extra mistakes when you rush. Absolutely, you will.

Bryan: 42:04

Like everyone wants to be timely when it comes to time sensitive tasking, but there's a difference between working quickly and efficiently and actually rushing. And then you skip steps or you make mistakes and it takes you much longer than it would have if you just went at a reasonable pace.

Luc: 42:21

Yeah. Absolutely. But I mean, intuitively, you wanna go quick.

Bryan: 42:24

Mhmm.

Luc: 42:24

So you have to force yourself to slow down. But better results occur once you slow down.

Bryan: 42:30

Yeah. Totally. What's the biggest difference between conducting your first rescue missions versus now with so many missions under your belt?

Luc: 42:38

So I felt so grateful to be accepted and become a first officer, as a CH one forty nine Coromant pilot. And I remember I will kinda age myself here. We had pagers then. I remember my pager going off for the first time, and I was so pumped. Like, I raised my arm.

Luc: 42:57

I was by myself in my house, raised my hands in the air. I was like, felt like I won the Stanley Cup or won the lottery. Was like, yeah. I was so pumped. And then going in, and I remember the mission very well and the aircraft commander at the time.

Luc: 43:12

I had to do a medevac in Northern Community, North Northern BC. But just being so pumped. Now the and also at that time, the the worse the weather was, the more challenging the weather was, the, you know, the most offshore is what I wanted and what excited me the most. As I become older, have, you know, three children of my own, scared myself a few times, got humbled many times. Mhmm.

Luc: 43:43

I'm still as pumped to get missions. However, if it happens to be on a nicer day or maybe a little bit simpler, I I prefer those.

Dan: 43:52

You see the beauty in it?

Luc: 43:53

Yeah. Or the very hairy, sketchy, sketchy ones. Yeah. Let's say perhaps I just got wiser over time. That's a big difference.

Luc: 44:03

But Yeah. Still as pumped. Yep. But just evolved over time.

Bryan: 44:09

Yeah. I think that's think that's pretty natural. I think if you spoke with most, especially I think most people who have kids, but all of us like think we're immortal when we're you're in your twenties or early thirties. Right? Like and then you sort of like you said, you scare yourself a couple times.

Bryan: 44:24

You have a few growth experiences, and you realize, like, k. You know, there's only so much risk that I really wanna take.

Luc: 44:31

Yeah. Absolutely. It's funny how you mentioned that. When I I had my first child in Gander, Newfoundland. And, before that, you know, missions where you said it it affected you emotionally.

Luc: 44:41

Before, they really did not affect me. After having kids, I all of a sudden realized that, oh, man. I I I am not immortal. Like, I can pass away. And if I that happens, it has, like, serious consequences.

Luc: 44:55

And that actually played my head for a little bit between that and scaring herself a bit more. And even at one point, I even have to go talk to someone for

Bryan: 45:03

a little

Luc: 45:03

bit, which I wish I'd done before. Because I can like, I thought as soon as you talk to someone, if you're having some issues with it, you you they stopped you from flying, which is not the case at all. And I try and educate a lot of junior crew members, you know, what how do you deal with it? Sometimes it's, it's good to talk about with friends, but also maybe it's good to talk with a professional. Yep.

Luc: 45:22

And we do have lots of, we're lucky now in the calf. Right? The narrative on this has changed. There's lots of options for us to talk, with a lot of professionals. And, it didn't take very much.

Luc: 45:32

A few sessions, it really helped me out. I wish I would've I would've done it sooner, though.

Bryan: 45:37

Yeah. I'm a huge proponent of therapy and talking to somebody. It can be such a huge weight off your shoulders, and, SIF MAP is a great program. You've got so many options. Like, if you need to talk, you've got your friends.

Bryan: 45:49

You've got SIF MAP, which is the Canadian Forces Members Assistance Program, which is free. For those listeners who are serving members, their families, you can access CifMap by Googling CFMAP or by calling +1 802687708. You can call that number twenty four hours a day, three sixty five days a year, and it is a free service that is confidential. You've got the mental health resources on base. And like you said, I think a big misconception people have is like, oh, if I have any problems, if I need to talk to somebody, like, I'm screwed.

Bryan: 46:25

My life's over.

Luc: 46:27

No. They're gonna ground me.

Bryan: 46:28

I'll be grounded.

Luc: 46:29

Not the case.

Bryan: 46:30

No. The they don't nobody wants you grounded. Like, the forces needs its pilots, and they put a lot of money and time into you, and it's nobody's goal to ground you.

Luc: 46:38

Yeah. Exactly.

Bryan: 46:40

You served as the commandant of the Canadian Forces School of Search and Rescue or CIFSAR. What did you learn there that prepared you to be in a leadership role in the development of SAR aircrew?

Luc: 46:51

CIVSAR was a great place to work. I had the pleasure of working side professionals for three years there. I believe I got a lot of mentoring done. There are a lot of great leaders at CIFSAR. It's a well oiled machine.

Luc: 47:06

The school runs on its own. Mhmm. I had some very strong master warrant officers at MWO Bitterman, who's a chief now, and MWO Chris Lammoth, who almost did more mentoring well, no. They, for sure, mentored me way more than what I gave to them. I remember even talking to both of them.

Luc: 47:27

Like, man, they it was like they were contributing to my learning a lot more than I was to them. I got to see how school is properly ran. So I learned a lot on leadership, you know, dealing also with a lot of type a personalities, but just motivated folks that wanna get the job done. They helped me become a much better leader, a bit more comfortable with myself. Some sometimes I'm gonna say no

Dan: 47:50

Mhmm.

Luc: 47:50

To folks who are very have strong personalities, very driven. You gain a bit more as a leader. And that transferred well as my role here at fourteen Squadron. This is a newer school. It's a new platform.

Luc: 48:05

Things aren't running as smoothly, but I I know what a well run school is. So it it does help me strive to to that to so that we achieve that standard as well. Right.

Bryan: 48:16

And you say things aren't running as smoothly, but you mean, like, as a natural consequence of a new platform and

Luc: 48:20

Yes. Exactly. CIFSAR has been running the same cookie cutter courses for I mean, it's been going since '44 was our course number one. Okay. And, so they have time to evolve and

Bryan: 48:33

Mhmm.

Luc: 48:33

And get good here. Yes. It's because we are it's a brand new capability. We're still learning the aircraft. We are producing high level aviators and maintainers, but we can get more efficient.

Luc: 48:44

Right. Yeah. Yeah. And we can always better ourselves.

Bryan: 48:47

So Yeah. For sure. You have earned two RCAF commendations, one of which was for a challenging rescue of an injured sailor a 150 miles West of Port Hardy. Can you take us through that story?

Luc: 48:59

Yeah. Absolutely. Your task, an injured sailor off a vessel at night. Weather was solid IFR. We took off from Colomox.

Luc: 49:11

We were instantly right after takeoff into the Goo. Couldn't see anything. Unfortunately, there was no serviceable fixed wing

Bryan: 49:19

Okay.

Luc: 49:19

Assets to to provide us top cover.

Bryan: 49:23

Was this during the time of the buff, or was it

Luc: 49:25

It was buff. Yeah. Buff time. So buff couldn't come. Aurora, as you check with them, they couldn't make it on time.

Luc: 49:32

We would have had to wait till the next day, so it didn't make sense. We opted to go right away. And on the way there, we had some, generator electrical issues where we lost a lot of our autopilots radar

Bryan: 49:43

Oh, wow. A bunch

Luc: 49:44

of equipment. And this is funny because I remember going down to our minimum equipment list and having discussions with Francois and on what you need and don't need, and we were just okay. We had just the minimum amount of equipment to legally do this in a mission. And, like, in training, we would never push that far. For sure.

Luc: 50:04

And then we it was a challenging hoist at night. No illumination. The hardest thing on a for a Cromat pilot is, at night and in bad is it in bad weathers, you have no horizon. So, you have this big ship that's moving up and down by, like, thirty thirty, 40 feet banking left and right. And then all of a sudden, you're like, am I the one who's moving up or down, or is it the vessel?

Luc: 50:28

It's super easy to get your gyros mixed up, especially when you don't have all the autopilots working for you. So that was quite challenging. You really have to I, you know, I really have to fight to rely on my attitude indicator and and other equipment that I had left, but we did get the job done safely. We got the injured sailor to Victoria. And then he yeah.

Luc: 50:54

We got the job done, went home, and lived to fly another day.

Bryan: 50:59

Was that, like how scared were you? Was that a scary one? Or were you just focused on getting it done?

Luc: 51:07

It was maybe a little bit scary, but it wasn't I've had some other much scary

Bryan: 51:11

moments. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

Luc: 51:14

It was challenging. Yeah. It was very it was more challenging than scary.

Bryan: 51:18

Yeah. You'll I guess, like, you were really stripped down in capability.

Luc: 51:21

Stripped down capability. I remember being a bit nervous lowering the Sartecs onto the vessel because my I didn't have all the autopilot, so I wasn't as stable.

Bryan: 51:28

Right. And I've heard I've heard winching is, like, a 100% about being a stable plant.

Luc: 51:32

Yes. When you're not as stable and you have a Sartech a 130 feet beneath you, if you start moving around, it will have it will exponentially move to you know, it's like a pendulum at the bottom. Right? It will start moving him a lot more and, but it end up working out.

Bryan: 51:49

Awesome. So you qualified on the Kingfisher to better understand crew experiences. Still, traditionally, you're a cormorant pilot. So how are you ensuring we are training to employ these aircraft in the best manner possible?

Luc: 52:02

As we talked about earlier, at the beginning there of the podcast, I am an operator at heart. I love to fly. And, I'm a big believer in in leading from the front. So the best way for me to understand this aircraft to fight for what need if no changes that need to to occur and to gain a bit more credibility amongst engineers and operators was to learn it myself and to go through the training program that we have New England grads go through. So I went through the program myself, learned a lot.

Luc: 52:38

I was at at that point, because I've been through the training system so much, I was able to find efficiencies. So the course is running a bit a bit smoother. Also, when we're trying to liaise with engineers on issues that operators are experiencing, I have my voice I have a lot more weight because I'm like, I've experienced this my myself. Yeah. You've gained credibility.

Luc: 53:01

You gained credibility, like, when we were talking about the, the buses coming coming offline. Now I can explain a bit more because I'm like, I've seen it. It's not not good. So you just have more credibility when you speak, and so it makes you a bit more efficient at at affecting change. As well as the CEO, being a light colonel, I find that when I go around and try and talk to the troops, it's a bit hard to get a finger on the pulse, really, because that's the first time I noticed now that, you the conversation's changed.

Luc: 53:31

And there's a good reason for that. However, when you're in the aircraft, as a crew member, you really get a good feel for how how things are going in the squadron

Bryan: 53:38

For sure.

Luc: 53:39

How morale is, any issues coming up here, you know, you become almost like a spy. You're just embedded with the group, and that's it.

Bryan: 53:47

Well, because there's like, flying is kind of the great equalizer. Right? Like A

Luc: 53:50

100%.

Bryan: 53:50

Rank is is for the most part left at the door.

Luc: 53:53

It is a 100%.

Bryan: 53:54

Everybody's part of the crew now. And like you talked earlier about how, you know, you would have like the the least ranked member of the crew would still should still be debriefing you on on things. So there's a more even exchange of information.

Luc: 54:07

Absolutely. And now I'm, like, the the newest, less proficient person on the cruise. It's very humbling, but it's great. I love it. And it's great to see some young crew members rise and mentor me and teach me.

Luc: 54:19

It's awesome. And above all, you know, keeping it fun. I'm having a blast doing it. I feel very lucky that I got to learn the Kingfisher at this point. Like, you're very blessed, loving every minute of it.

Bryan: 54:30

Yeah. It is like speaking from experience yesterday, like, getting a chance to check out the Sims, go for a flight, it's an amazing aircraft. So, yeah, you guys are fortunate.

Luc: 54:40

Yeah. The CAF has a lot of great opportunities. Like, I've, I've had tremendous luck, but many p many know. If you're interested in joining, there's lots of great avenues, a lot of lot of you can have a lot of fun in this career.

Bryan: 54:53

If I'll I'll say this. If if I was still in, I would be wishing for a slot on the Kingfisher. Like, that that plan is really, really impressive. You're sold. Yep.

Bryan: 55:03

Absolutely. Okay. We're running a little short on time, so we are going to ask Dan his questions in the next episode and move straight into the final questions for this episode. What is the most important thing each of you does to stay ready to do your job?

Luc: 55:19

I often tell members here at fourteen Squadron that if things are not good for you, home, in your personal life, how am I going to expect you to perform well at work? So it's keeping that balance, making sure you, get proper, you know, sleep hygiene. I don't it sounds very it's like a lot of common sense. But sleep hygiene, working out, being in the moment, spending time with your family and friends, not making work all of your life, having other other hobbies, being well rounded, and focusing on, you know, realizing your own new limits as well. Sometimes you need to take a little step back or slow down.

Luc: 56:08

If and if you can remain well rounded, I believe it keeps you well prepared.

Bryan: 56:13

Mhmm. Yeah. Yeah.

Francois: 56:17

How about you, Francois? I think communication is key, so I try to keep, comms channels open as much as possible. That that really helps. Trust your team, empower your team. That's that's something that I I always focus on.

Francois: 56:33

And for me, keep flying. I I fly quite a bit as a commanding officer. That allows me to stay proficient, to stay credible, to understand who I'm working with, because like we said already, flying brings everything everyone to the common denominator. You can actually see the essence of the the human nature when you're in a SAR role, and continue to mentor junior members essentially.

Bryan: 56:57

Okay. How about you, Dan?

Dan: 57:00

Me, on a personal level, I'm gonna just almost combine their answers and say that definitely, first and foremost is be ready, as in happy and sorted out on your own time. So if you have something in the background that's getting at you, this is me I'm talking about, it needs to be solved. But I'm pretty good at taking action, if I have to change in my life, I've made big changes. Mhmm. Do what you have to do, but don't let it linger.

Dan: 57:29

Solve that problem. And then secondly is is just too simple. It's fly. You have to be proficient. Like, there's nothing worse than the stress of getting into a situation where you start to realize I'm only just keeping up because I need to be like quite a bit ahead right now, not be focused at all on flying.

Dan: 57:47

And I I have hit that point in the past and I'll say it's not great and it's important to be proficient.

Bryan: 57:54

I agree with that. And I I think everybody's been there at some point. Like, I found I used to get that sometimes if it had been a while since I ran emergencies in the sim. And like, I'd go I'd go to my next sim and I'd be like, kind of have almost like an anxiety built up, but then you go and tackle it and you feel great. Because like now you have that confidence that you're proficient and like if anything happens, you know how to handle it.

Bryan: 58:14

Absolutely. You and your crew are tight. And I think that's really important. Yep. What do you guys think makes a great SAR pilot, whether that be fixed wing or rotary?

Dan: 58:26

I think I mean, put simply, I just think open mindedness from the crew. And that goes to everybody from the AC down, but that you are flying with your crew, listening to their input because, you know, you gotta catch sometimes the smallest inputs amount to something important. So I think it's really important that people are humble and listen to what people are saying. You have to, in the end, make a decision. Like, from an aircraft man or role, somebody has to make a decision.

Dan: 58:55

So at the end, you have to do that. But I just think that the entire crew is open to the situation and logical, take a step forward and make a decision.

Francois: 59:05

Okay. Francois? What makes a great SAR pilot? Definitely not Luke's mustache earlier this year. That was terrible.

Francois: 59:15

Now I think flexibility and fluidity. So no, let's start off with training. Training, calmness, experience makes a good SAR pilot, and staying flexible and fluid. SAR is anything but scripted, so you need to stay, to take Dan's words, open minded. Over planning sometimes can actually backfire, and I've seen it in SAR.

Francois: 59:38

If you over plan, you're now painting yourself in a corner. So almost procrastination by design, when you get a SAR tasking, actually will help you to to to open up to the the fluidity and the flexibility of that SAR tasking.

Bryan: 59:53

Are you saying, like, just so I understand, basically, like, if you cover too many contingencies ahead of time, like, I do if this happens, I'll do this. If this happen, then it stops you from remaining open minded to

Francois: 01:00:04

kind how you need to react. Yeah. Yeah. You summarize it really well.

Luc: 01:00:08

Yeah. Yeah. I would say in the siren environment, nothing ever goes to plan, or in my experience in anyways. So if you just preplan everything, it won't it's almost for nothing because it won't happen that way, and then you'll as far as to start painting yourself to go this route, which may not be necessarily the route you should take so.

Francois: 01:00:25

Yeah. And I've seen aircrew that come either from a different background or their nature is different, and the they they're comfortable in planning, but then they cannot deviate from that plan based on the SARS situation, and and they're just unable to adapt. And that's a very big problem. So you need to build a very basic framework for a SARS situation, but no more than that and evolve as the plan unfolds.

Bryan: 01:00:53

Okay. Do you have more to add?

Luc: 01:00:57

No. Just be mentally resilient, always striving to better yourself, open minded. Those are the three three key points.

Bryan: 01:01:06

Awesome. What advice would you give to a listener who is in training and wants to be a STAR pilot? Just the same thing that would you

Francois: 01:01:15

we just said, stay open minded, have fun. I I I can't focus enough on that. Have fun. Have fun. And be prepared for anything.

Francois: 01:01:23

SAR is there there's no pre predescribed situation. It can be anything from day, night, boats, mountains, Arctic, domestic airspace. So just stay open minded.

Bryan: 01:01:35

Okay.

Luc: 01:01:36

I would say it would help you if you perform very well during your pilot phase training, as in normally the top students get the top picks. I'm I'm not sure if that still still works that way.

Bryan: 01:01:48

Last time I heard, yeah.

Luc: 01:01:50

Yeah. So if you finish first or second on your course and there's some SAAR spots available, you will definitely increase your chances on becoming a SAAR pilot, which I think it's the best place to be. So

Bryan: 01:02:03

light a fire in your belly. If you're coming up to your phase one or phase two course

Luc: 01:02:07

Phase two.

Bryan: 01:02:08

Yeah. Take it seriously. Work hard.

Luc: 01:02:10

Exactly. Use it as motivation to perform better.

Bryan: 01:02:12

Yeah.

Francois: 01:02:15

I have

Dan: 01:02:15

a lot of friends that fly other platforms and I think a lot of them from there, you know, where they sit, they're standing is that their platform is amazing and I'm sure it is. But if you're planning to be a SAR pilot, I think you will have zero regrets. It's it's just a fabulous job, amazing community, very rewarding. You just kinda can't go wrong. I think it's great to even all the way down to your family.

Dan: 01:02:44

We'll we'll say good work to you. Awesome.

Luc: 01:02:47

Yeah. Yeah. We are lucky if you talk to, I'd say, you know, most SAR operators and maintainers, like, the level of work satisfaction is very high. Like, I don't know very I don't know it's hard for me to think of someone who who made it through SAR in whatever capacity. I'd say everyone pretty much enjoys it.

Luc: 01:03:10

So we're we're very lucky. It's a very rewarding and fun and meaningful job.

Bryan: 01:03:15

Yeah. I don't think I've met anyone working in SAR who didn't love it.

Luc: 01:03:22

I'm biased, so I didn't wanna say it that way, but I agree.

Bryan: 01:03:26

So just to wrap this up, what is something the public should know about what SAR crews do that maybe doesn't make the headlines?

Dan: 01:03:33

I would say that SAR crews are out training a lot. We spend so much time training. And if anybody is coming into a situation where SAR is going to be required, say it quick. Say it before, it's a huge problem. Because our assets and all the teams all the way from the RCAF to marine to GSAR are all standing by and excited and ready and prepped to do it.

Dan: 01:03:59

So if anybody ever has the idea that they don't want to make that call, if this is, you know, for the public, I would say make it while, you know, while something's not too big of a problem. Yeah. Yeah.

Bryan: 01:04:13

Okay, guys. That's gonna wrap up part one of our chat for today. I really wanna thank you for having me here. I really enjoyed hearing about your flight training and getting some of your insights of the SAR world, and I'm really looking forward to talking all things two nine five for the next one. So thank you guys very much.

Bryan: 01:04:30

Alright. That wraps up part one of our chat with Luc, Francois, and Dan. Tune in to our next episode to hear all about Dan's involvement in the search and rescue world and the path that led him to the two ninety five, as well as some in-depth questions on the two ninety five Kingfisher. Do you have any questions or comments about anything you've heard in this show? Would you or someone you know make a great guest, or do you have a great idea for a show?

Bryan: 01:04:52

You can reach out to us at the pilotprojectpodcast@Gmail.com or on all social media at at pod pilotproject. And be sure to check out that social media for lots of great videos of our RCAF and mission aviation aircraft. As always, we'd like to thank you for tuning in and ask for your help with the big three. That's like and follow us on social media, share with your friends, and follow and rate us five stars wherever you get your podcasts. That's all for now.

Bryan: 01:05:17

Thanks for listening. Keep the blue side up. See you. Engineer, shut down all four. Shutting down all four engines.