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Bryan: 00:58

Alright. We're ready for departure here at the pilot project podcast, the best source for stories and advice from RCAF and mission aviation pilots brought to you by Sky's Magazine. I'm your host, Brian Morrison, and today we're doing a very special on location interview in Comox, BC with lieutenant colonel Francois Pasquale, COO of four four two Transport and Rescue Squadron, lieutenant colonel Luke Coates, COO of four eighteen Search and Rescue Operational Training Squadron, and major Dan Fox, a qualified Kingfisher pilot who is a subject matter expert on the c two ninety five. Gents, welcome back to the show, and thank you once again for having me here in Comox. Listeners can check out part two to hear about Dan's career and experiences in the search and rescue world and what brought him to the two ninety five as well as some in-depth questions on the Kingfisher.

Bryan: 01:42

For today, we'll be finishing those in-depth questions as well as going through every rumor I could find about problems that the c two ninety five has supposedly had. Without further ado, let's get back into talking to Luke about training crews. Given your operational background, what lessons from your star missions directly influence how you train Kingfisher crews?

Luc: 02:03

Do you remember earlier how I said and we both agreed on the same slow, smooth, smooth disc fast? Well, we've been working very hard at 14, pushing everyone's on the same, has the same mission mission focus to get crews qualified. For example, we got May 1 was a big push. We have Greenwood right now coming up in January 26. Everyone's pushing so hard.

Luc: 02:29

However, I've noticed that it's it was starting to even go a little bit too much. Mhmm. And it's sort of that experience from my being an AC where I realized, hey. We actually have to, like, slow down a little bit and recage and make sure we're all going on the same direction. So that's that's kind some transferable lessons from my you know, that I learned to go to that slower is actually quicker, and, it's the same thing, you know, leading a squadron or, where where those those skills are trans transferred into a lead more like a leadership decision.

Bryan: 03:02

Mhmm. And we sort of we we touched on that topic yesterday when we were sort of chatting and meeting each other. And, for the listeners, like, I would like to say that it is refreshing to hear a leader, especially somebody in a CO bill it, being willing to recognize, like, people are being pushed hard right now and maybe almost too hard or maybe not to say that things were going too hard, but we're starting to reach limits because not all leaders have that ability to recognize that. I think there's a never been in that position, but I would imagine there's a certain amount of pressure to produce. You have two years in that position.

Bryan: 03:35

And you have a lot of people standing on your shoulder saying, like, we need this now. We need this by this date, and that has to happen. So it's it's nice to hear to hear a leader in that position who's willing to say, like, hey. We have to be careful here.

Luc: 03:50

Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, just like when you're an aircraft commander, your job's to bring back your your crew safely home. Right? Mhmm.

Luc: 03:59

It's the same thing as a commanding officer. You want to keep your everyone in your squadron, squadron members healthy, and it's important not to have a, you know, one year end goal. I want folks to stay healthy and remain in the calf for the next five, ten, twenty years. You've got to keep a long term goal and make decisions based on what's best for them for the long term, not just the short term targets.

Bryan: 04:26

Yeah. I respect that. We've mentioned this, but pilots can be trained purely on the sim and be fully qualified to operate the Kingfisher. In fact, from what we saw yesterday, there is a high level of sophisticated simulation used for both maintainers and aircrew. Is that going to be the norm, or will there be a blend of time in the sim and the aircraft?

Luc: 04:45

As I mentioned earlier, we try and conduct as much training as we can in simulators. It is just more reliable, more efficient. You can run it all times of the day. I mean, our sims are going from six in the morning to sometimes all the way midnight nonstop. However, it's still good to get a bit of realism.

Luc: 05:02

And where right now we're lacking a little bit is even though we prep all of our training in the simulator, it's still good to throw a pump to a vessel to an actual vessel. It's still good to real life. In real life. It's great to see Sartex parachuting for real out to a vessel. So there's simulation is great, but it's good to get that confirmation check and confidence that you've done it for real in a training environment then before you go do it on a mission for the first time.

Bryan: 05:32

Yeah. That makes sense. How have you shaped the training pipeline for new Kingfisher crews?

Luc: 05:40

Yeah. So right now, we run our air crew, and it's a combination of pilots, Axos, and, ASOPs. So, like, sensor operators, air combat system officers, and pilots. There's essentially, it's four crews. Sartics are trained separately because it's a bit quicker for them.

Luc: 05:59

Mhmm. And they they progress through the course together. They train together. So it's kinda nice because they operate in the and from day right off the beginning, they start operating as a crew as you would in real life. So not sometimes you're in silo, but you're often joint together.

Luc: 06:15

For training. For training. Yeah. Which which, I mean, you're training like you fight Yeah. Right off the get go, which is which is nice.

Luc: 06:23

The courses are about five months long. I'm hoping to shorten it and, you know, hopefully get around to the four month mark as we get better and a bit more efficient. And three quarters of it is all in the sim. For pilots, there's four flights at the end of it. And right now for axles and sensor operators, there's about 10 flights, but we're looking to improve our simulating lessons and reduce it to maybe, like, a seven seven flights, hopefully.

Bryan: 06:49

Okay. What is different about training crews for this aircraft compared to the Hercules or the Buffalo?

Luc: 06:56

Dan, I'll let you answer that one.

Dan: 06:58

Yeah. I mean, I'll go with the obvious point that I think that central sensor station is changing our tactics. We're having to add in effectively a new trade. So we have our airborne electronic sensor operator. Like our ASOPs come from Cyclone, from maritime helicopters, and maritime patrol fixed wing.

Dan: 07:21

And we're trying to blend in the capability that they bring. So as we learn more and more and our our tactics in the background are developing, I think we're just focusing more and more on how we're dealing with that. So instead of the old plane, which was like a navigator and two pilots and then the back end, now we have three groups. We have the front that works well and autonomously with all that new that fancy kit we have. Gives them a fair bit of time where they can handle the flying part.

Dan: 07:52

Now we have this middle group that we're bringing into all of our crew tactics and how we fight the aircraft. So that is the difference. How we train versus the old one, that also has its own unique simulator, its own unique very broad course to bring

Luc: 08:07

the

Dan: 08:08

sensor operators and the tacos, tactical coordinators up to speed. So that's the focus. That's what is new and fancy on the street here. And I would say, you know, what we've been wrapping our heads around for the last few years, we could fly fixed wing SAR with the old planes, but, we're burying the sensors and the tactics right now. Yeah.

Dan: 08:27

We're blending them in.

Luc: 08:28

I can tell you one thing that has not changed, and we have to drive it into our air crew even more, is that aviate, navigate, communicate. It is so tempting in this aircraft because there are so many shiny buttons all over the place, and you just wanna push them, especially, like, operators. Right? That it's easy to both get two heads down at the same time or to get tunnel vision into a certain camera or whatever system you want you wanna operate or or utilize, but it's crucial to to aviate, navigate, communicate remains true even in this complex aircraft, and that that's something we we must strive to to continue.

Bryan: 09:07

Yeah. I can see yesterday, I was given the opportunity to actually sit in the seat and fly the two ninety five, which was incredible. And one of the things that I noticed was because there is so much information being presented to you and it is, like, a fascinating thing, it would be really easy to become scope locked. And like I was saying, I was turning, for example. And I'm looking into the HUD and making sure everything is kind of where it needs to be.

Bryan: 09:30

But then it's easy to forget like, oh, yeah, I'm turning. Like, I should be looking ahead of the airplane. Like, is there traffic in that direction? Right? Because that's the base that's aviate and aviate navigate communicate.

Bryan: 09:39

So I I totally see what you're saying.

Dan: 09:42

Yeah. That's a great point that, and from a pilot perspective, the training, yeah, the automation and use of all that technology has definitely become an important part of how we communicate it to the other pilot so we all understand what the plane is doing.

Francois: 09:58

Because you

Dan: 09:58

can, in a second, have the plane operating more or less on its own as you saw yesterday. You can quickly set the plane up. It gives you enough indication. It'll actually tell you how far to set the power lever to exactly hold the speed you're on. Remember that's the

Bryan: 10:12

Or a bar.

Dan: 10:12

There's a bar. So we have so much info that you can kind of set it and start to forget it in a sense. We are definitely learning to stay on top of the automation and regiment into our standard operating procedures. Exactly. Yep.

Luc: 10:26

Yep. Yeah. We wanna avoid you police, yeah, each other and let crews police us too to avoid two heads down at the same time.

Bryan: 10:34

Yes. Coming from a sensor platform, that's huge. It's really, really easy to get super focused on the mission and everyone's excited and there's a whole bunch of like new toys almost that you have to manage. And yeah, you have to like we used to basically say, okay, I'm heads down. Like we would just do a call out straight up because it was a way that the other two people on the flight decks, we had a flight engineer, are aware of that.

Bryan: 10:58

And then the other guy's not going to know, without thinking, just start, oh, I'm also heads down. Like it's a it's an important thing for sure. Going back to your back enders, your sensor operators, one thing I will say is they seem to absolutely love their jobs. We had, I believe it was Ben and Jeff yesterday. Mhmm.

Bryan: 11:16

And, you know, Ben was having a having a great time there on the camera and doing his thing, and he had a huge grin on his face the whole time. Jeff was telling me about how the Aesop's really enjoy that there's an added depth to the trade on the Kingfisher because they there is no flight engineer. So they're taking on some of the maintenance roles. They're able to fuel. They're able to do checks.

Bryan: 11:35

And he said it's kind of added some depth to the trade. Like, he was a I believe he said he was an acoustician before on the Aurora. And so, you know, you have one job. Right? Like, it's very stovepiped on the Aurora.

Bryan: 11:45

Everyone has their job. We work as a team, but everyone has their kind of thing that they're doing. And he was saying he was really enjoying the added depth that this aircraft adds.

Dan: 11:53

Yeah.

Luc: 11:53

So not just the maintenance task. They're also the safety person for who the Sartex deploy. They have to drop bundles of survival gear, pumps for a vessel that's sinking, life rafts, or whatever else the Sartex may require. So they they play an intricate role that, is much more than operating sensors.

Bryan: 12:14

Yeah. They're kind of a sensor operator. Some of the tasks of a flight engineer, some of the tasks of a loadmaster, it's very interesting.

Luc: 12:21

Yep.

Bryan: 12:23

Dan, something that blew me away when we flew the Kingfisher yesterday was the amount of information available to the pilot. You got a heads up display or HUD with a display that is absolutely full of information yet still incredibly user friendly. You've even got a couple forms of synthetic vision that we've discussed through the HUD. Can you tell us how hard it was to learn to embrace these new technologies as someone who's come from like a more basic technological aircraft?

Dan: 12:47

Yep. I think I can speak to that a little bit. And I think it's a great journey and one that lots of people in the future are going be able to, associate with as they get onto the plane. I'll just say this. So we get into the simulator, is the most just an absolutely perfect environment to do this because it's so forgiving as you learn.

Dan: 13:07

And so for me, someone who was like at best on an HSI and an EADI more or less, Twin Otter did a little better than that. Twin Otter had somewhat of a a repeated head up display, so it almost looked like a a HUD in a nice small glass instrument, but

Bryan: 13:22

And sorry. Just for the listeners, the EHSI, EADI, those are flight instruments to help you fly in bad weather.

Dan: 13:28

Yeah. There's like an electronic compass card Yep. And then another one is an electronic artificial horizon. Yep. And you get to combine the two basically to navigate your aircraft and control it.

Dan: 13:40

So coming from a fairly basic platform, going on to this one, I'll say that for the future folks, expect that Collin's system that they've built is like a language. That's the best way I can put it. So when I get in there, like a lot of things, when you're thrown into a new subject and you're like, you know, Dan, you will learn Microsoft Project. You go in and the first day you get in there, it's a little daunting and, and you just realize this is going to be difficult and it's kind of you get that stress that comes with all these type of things that tells you, okay, start hitting the books and like going at it because you know nothing right now.

Bryan: 14:16

You're getting the fire hose.

Dan: 14:18

The fire hose. I'd just say the way the curved work for me was that it took, I honestly think, close to a hundred hours where I'm thinking, I think I'm doing well, you know, fifty hours and you're like, oh man, this flight's going great. And then the plane just does something you did not expect and then I got to go back to the drawing board. Holy cow. I obviously don't understand the logic in the system there.

Dan: 14:40

But you hit a point where all of a sudden as your mind knows the language, it's wild. For me on a personal level, all of a sudden you go out one day and you just think, oh my gosh, the workload is so low here. This plane is going so fast and perfectly articulating the information I need to know back to me. Like the chevron that demonstrates essentially, you know, depending on the state of the aircraft, but how much power you could set to exactly hold that speed in the attitude you're in now or angle of attack indicator telling you exactly what the status of your wing is including your configuration. Oh my gosh, once these things are part of the language and your brain knows it, it is phenomenally easier to fly.

Dan: 15:24

That's the end result to my story is, wow, you think it's so difficult to absorb it and then one day you walk and you think, man, the Buffalo and every other plane was so much more difficult. And that even goes to we have an electronic flight bag that helps me with flight planning. We have an electronic performance calculator. Takes one hour of work, puts it into five minutes. Like, the tools are incredible.

Dan: 15:48

They will you'll just go to bed smiling and fall asleep and dream about them. It's pretty cool. Like, really is if you are a pilot, you can nerd out all day long on the stuff, in the aircraft and just you'll appreciate it for years and years.

Bryan: 16:04

It's That's awesome. So we spoke about SAREX twenty twenty four earlier. During the exercise, you folks tested the maintenance pack up kit or puck. Can you tell us about that?

Francois: 16:13

Yeah, sure. So this was an informal test. It was an opportunity basis during SAREX twenty twenty four where we we demonstrated the capability to deploy the Kingfisher and its maintenance capability elsewhere. We did it locally, so we we took our team, our technician teams with the tools and the support elements about 500 meters on the other side of the hangar, and we supported for that those few days, the Kingfisher, but remotely. So we did not tap in to the four forty two and the normal maintenance from the main operating base.

Francois: 16:48

We demonstrated that we were able to support it in a deployable manner.

Bryan: 16:52

Which is a pretty huge capability. Like, that's significant to be able to, without help from home base, go on the road, have your own systems, have your own parts, whatever it is that you need to bring, your tools and all that, and actually support the aircraft.

Francois: 17:06

Yeah. Well, it speaks to probably major search prolonged searches. If you're gonna deploy a Kingfisher for two, three, four, five days, two weeks in Kamloops, for instance, well, now we've demonstrated the capability that we can deploy that asset independently, autonomously, and completely live on our own in a deployed environment.

Bryan: 17:26

Mhmm. That's awesome. So, Francois, now that there has been a chance to use the various aircraft types together in exercises and operations, can you tell us how the rotary assets and the Kingfisher will coordinate and work together?

Francois: 17:38

Yeah. The I think the how doesn't change much. The concept of ops in SAR remains, the framework remains the same, where you have a top cover asset, a search asset, which is the fixed wing SAR, platform, and the rotary wing asset, which is essentially the rescue platform. What changes, and we've mentioned this already many times, is the modernization, the the accuracy of information, the ability to investigate a target, a victim, and to have that fixed wing SAR asset with all their modern sensors pinpoint within a few square meters, the location of a victim and to hone in for the the rescue of that victim. It will become a, an elevated top cover platform as well.

Francois: 18:24

So for whether it's mountainous or maritime search and rescue, this aircraft, the the Kingfisher, is now some sort of a mini AWACS, but for SAR. It's gonna be able to be the on scene commander. It'll be able to assess winds, weather, a communication platform, and that's above and beyond the detection capability that it brings to the game. Okay. So a very complementary task associated system.

Bryan: 18:52

Okay. Awesome. So let's shift gears and talk about real world missions and performance of the Kingfisher. This one's for all of you. The Kingfisher began taking on operational missions on May 1.

Bryan: 19:03

Did that feel like a significant milestone after all the work that has been put into this transition?

Dan: 19:08

I got to do a couple before May 1. I was lucky I was on those ones we spoke about earlier. But bottom line is it has been a fairly long road to get there and I think May 1 meant a lot to everybody. I think it meant something to people all the way up to retired generals to see it because a lot of people have touched the project and cared a lot about it, you know, succeeding and getting to the end line. So yeah, from maintainers through the contractors, we have had contractors with us since the start too.

Dan: 19:37

Like Mhmm. I mean, I think of all the faces, you know, in 2017 writing these courses. I was there when we were doing it, like, yeah, it means a lot to a lot of people and it's been a part of people's careers at this point.

Bryan: 19:49

Yeah. I mean, you're talking about eight years now. Right?

Dan: 19:51

Yeah. Yeah. For sure.

Francois: 19:53

I I've seen and I think I was mentioning this to you maybe offline here, but I've seen a wind of change the moment that the 05/01/2025 was announced and the RCF was focused on that that timeline last year, so about a year before May 1 timeline, everyone came together, contractors, RCF, technicians, the project, to make May 1 a reality. So it was everyone became motivated, everyone had that sense of purpose, everyone knew that the target date was a real thing now and not just an imaginary or a fiction emblem, and and we actually over delivered in the sense that like Dan is saying we were ready before the May 1 because everyone was in lockstep, the entire institution was motivated to bring the Kingfisher to an operational status, and we've launched the Kingfisher twice before the May 1 on SAR missions and several times since the May 1. So a huge relief. Everyone is extremely proud. We, as an institution, I think we took our time, a deliberate time to make sure that we build the foundation blocks.

Francois: 20:58

So think we did it right. Like, if you look at it, yes, there were delays. Yes, there were challenges. But those were surmountable challenges, and we've took we've we we took measured steps to make sure that nothing was missed and that everything was safe so that the May 1 was a full success story in terms of the SAAR.

Bryan: 21:18

Awesome. So Francois, has any SAAR mission stood out since the Kingfisher began flying operational missions on May 1?

Francois: 21:27

Yeah. I think we can come back to that, that mission, a couple of weeks after the May 1 where an aircraft with one solo pilot crashed, about 80 nautical miles Northeast of Prince George. That was based on my career in SAR, pretty much a textbook SAR mission. All so so we've talked about SAR as a systems of systems in Canada. It's not only about the RCF, but provincial assets, federal assets, so on are involved.

Francois: 21:54

This one was exactly that. So that aircraft had crashed. ATC, the air traffic controller, had noticed that the aircraft had disappeared under the radar signature. An ELT had been detected. An emergency locator transmitter had been detected.

Francois: 22:09

The local RCMP helicopter had been flown on scene. Weather severe weather was rolling in, so the the Kingfisher and the Cormorant was tasked. The Kingfisher arrived on scene with severe weather rolling in. They were unable to parachute the Sartex on scene directly, but due to the severity of the injured pilot, they they decided to parachute the Sartex about 10 kilometers off scene with the ability of the RCMP helicopter to transport that that victim to to the parachuted site. So extremely positive outcome.

Francois: 22:44

First, for a survivor out of a plane crash, that is it's it's an anomaly, essentially. Like, I've done in my career many plane crashes or helicopter crashes rescue, and unfortunately, nine out of 10 times its body parts that we recover and not and not walking human beings. So that was very beneficial for the kingfisher to able to parachute Saartex into the close vicinity, and this was just minutes before the storm was actually rolling in, where we had now the cormorant rescue capability to come in about thirty to forty five minutes after and rescue extract the search and rescue technicians and the victim, bring them back to Saint George. So textbook mission, very positive outcome.

Luc: 23:30

The the scientist said as soon as he landed, like, minute after, started to hail.

Bryan: 23:33

Oh, wow. That's crazy. Would they have been able to jump if it was hailing actively?

Francois: 23:38

Probably not in that location, because hail I mean, the the hail itself is one thing, but just the the thunderstorm activity, all that convective activity would have prevented a safe parachute insertion. Wow.

Bryan: 23:50

So the timing just worked out?

Luc: 23:52

The timing was good, and and the teamwork with all those entities worked out extremely well. And after the Sartex jumped the outs, because I always wanna keep a note when you're flying, was starting to close, they had to leave and fly out towards their out. And they couldn't necessarily see the Sartex. Like, they had to save themselves. Wow.

Luc: 24:12

Make sure they entered a safe regime of flight. And then after confirming, the Sartex were good, but they couldn't just remain on scene to ensure that they landed safely because the weather was closing in. Bad weather was yeah. It was bad weather closing in. They had to leave.

Bryan: 24:25

That's crazy. That was the the, two ninety five that happened?

Dan: 24:29

Yeah. Yeah.

Bryan: 24:30

Wow. That's wild. You guys do some crazy stuff.

Francois: 24:33

Yeah. So we well, we train for these things. Right? We we train on, on, on, and on, and on, until we actually get tasked on these complex missions. And this mission unfolded like a training scenario would have been, would have been brought to life.

Bryan: 24:50

You've said that everyone who steps on it becomes a believer. We've I've went on about, the the back enders from yesterday's flight and how much they were enjoying it.

Luc: 24:57

Did you become a believer after your flight yesterday? Oh, yeah.

Bryan: 25:00

A 100%. Good. Yeah. And I will say, you never know. You never know if there's a perceived pressure for people like, you know, this project has to happen.

Bryan: 25:13

So is there is there like an element of like, well, it has to happen and I guess it works and so, yeah, let's let's make this work. Not what I that was not what I saw happening. Like, it was obviously an extremely capable aircraft that people are truly buying into. So

Francois: 25:28

Yeah. And I think that narrative would have been different if we had if we had had the pressure of implementing it a year ago or two years ago. But we we actually So we took our time? We took our time and deliberately took step by step to make sure that everything was safe and effective for that operationalization date. Speaking

Bryan: 25:46

of that, there were a number of challenges. So let's dive into some of the hurdles that had to be jumped over and kind of which would be some of the ways we took our time, right, to make sure that things were were right and that we had if there were issues that those things were cleared up. Every new platform has hurdles. What have been some of the biggest challenges with the Kingfisher?

Dan: 26:05

I think one of the biggest challenges with the Kingfisher, speaking from an air crew, you know what, probably speaking from everybody's perspective that's been involved and in every level whether it's the air force or the contractors that we have had to wait longer than expected. So people were jettisoned in, you know, had these expectations on how long it would take and the fact that it delayed was something that had to happen. You know, we made design changes, a lot of engineering had to happen then if people got to see in the back room it cascades down so it goes from engineering and it's finally approved and certified and then it's turned into say a service bulletin and then they actually do it to the aircraft and then the publications have to be changed and then the training needs to be updated. If people can see that cascade, they'd sort of see why this thing delayed. But bottom line, you know, I think the biggest hurdle for everybody was to wait, It's you hard to stay motivated, especially if you see work repeating itself.

Dan: 27:08

So like say if the plane got modified or things become modified enough that you have to redo or we've passed a couple of years by and they're like, let's look at all the courseware again because in two years, we've kind of modified it in the background and it's improved or whatever. But the same group is challenged sometimes with things that feel repetitious and, you know, it's hard to stay super motivated and laser focused on what you wanted, which is to turn the wrench or to get in the plane and start it and fly it. So honestly, I I think I'll not maybe not everybody, but a lot of people would agree that, just being there and waiting, I think as it was said a second ago by left hand girl Francois, we took the right steps. I think we had to crawl and then, walk and run, you know, as we've gotten going and that to stay safe, we had challenges. All that engineering had to be overcome.

Dan: 28:01

We've got to the point now, but it was hard

Francois: 28:03

Okay.

Dan: 28:04

To, be there and wait. And a lot of people were there quickly and have been waiting a long time.

Bryan: 28:10

Okay.

Dan: 28:10

So it's great for them now, but it was tough in that period.

Francois: 28:14

I think also one of the biggest challenges, if I look back and I step back, is communication challenges. There have been so many bodies, entities, agencies involved in this project, whether it's the PMO, the OEM, the RCF staff, the contractors, the subcontractors. So making sure that we had a clean mechanism to communicate between all those entities was the initial challenge. And I can say with confidence now that that communication challenge is a thing of the past. It's cleaner.

Francois: 28:50

We have mechanisms to deal with the OEM. We can talk to the folks in Spain. We can talk to the PMO. The RCF has direct links to to such and such, so it is much cleaner. Everyone is in lockstep.

Francois: 29:03

And this wasn't a lack of willingness to collaborate collaborate. Not at all. It was it was just a lack of proper lines of communication, which we have now established.

Bryan: 29:14

Yeah. So just some I would assume that's kind of normal growing pains almost with a new project and a new aircraft. Yeah. Exactly. Contracts with, you know I don't think we've ever bought an aircraft from Spain before.

Bryan: 29:25

So, you know, there's gonna be learning there with developing those lines of communication.

Francois: 29:29

Yeah. And here in Comox, we've cleaned up those lines of communications. We've worked all through the challenges. And I can, again, speak with confidence that the stand up of Greenwood, Winnipeg, and Trenton are going to be smoother because we've learned from our our lessons. We've established SOPs.

Francois: 29:46

We we have procedures in place. And those will be useful for the stand up of the following bases in Canada. Great. So now we're going to

Bryan: 29:56

discuss some specific rumors, issues, problems that may or may not have occurred. I really want people who are listening to this show to perk up and pay attention because Dan and I have talked about this yesterday that there was just so much so much discussion, so many people involved, so many various rumors that I think you said at one point that pretty much any time you mentioned what you did, someone would say, Oh, I heard this. And it would be some wild thing that may have had some basis in fact or may not have.

Dan: 30:28

Yep. I could sit down at any base and say what I did and I would have people like tuck their chairs in at the table and start asking me questions.

Bryan: 30:35

Yeah. Yep. So so let's talk about some of these. There were some concerns with the performance of the Kingfisher in cold weather and particularly icing. So how has the Kingfisher performed in the Arctic in cold weather environments?

Dan: 30:47

So what I can say to that is we work through one of the engineering challenges with the aircraft that speaks to probably the root. Rumors probably have something behind them a lot of the time and the truth was as this plane is coming to us and we're looking through the requirements it has to meet and we're looking at the performance data, we saw that there was a gap in the data. You know, it's probably the way we do it in Canada, the way we looked at it, needed to see a certain amount of performance data in ice to understand if it can complete a flight plan. So what is the rate of climb when it has ice accreted or it's in icing conditions so we can calculate the climb and obstacle clearance in our fuel? Well, we identified a gap where we said we need charting for that.

Dan: 31:35

And at the end of the day, you know, there's a lot of collaboration and explanation because we're two different places and Airbus, you know, they're looking at it the way their perspective is. They don't necessarily agree but we came to an agreement in the end and they produced a lot more performance data. And that goes for icing conditions, drift downs, they provided updated data to that, certified data which is that takes a long time to get it through that process, and then performance data beyond icing conditions too, so we can see what the single engine performance is to high altitudes because we said, you know, we're going be in the SAR environment where I need, I have obstacles that don't end at, you know, whatever, a low altitude, I need to know all the way up to 8,000 feet how the plane is performing to get out. So, you know, that's probably largely the background that people were hearing. Then of course, when you pass that through 10 different persons, the story gets into all different places.

Dan: 32:36

But that was the key point is we didn't have it or at least as I remember it, and they did provide updated performance information. So now we can do those things. It's part of our electronic performance calculator. As far as how it performs in the Arctic, I'll say that we have limited experience and I don't think it'd be worthwhile to really give an opinion at this point. We've done testing requirements as far as how it does, but we're just starting.

Dan: 33:08

Now is like the start point where we get to go out with the aircraft and we're pushing it away from the base further and further and we are for sure going to operate it up into the Arctic this year. I know there's another operational test planned and our developmental test team has already done their work there, so and the plane has been into the cold climactic lab. I was

Bryan: 33:30

going say it has been cold weather tested. Twice.

Dan: 33:32

More than twice. I mean, thing has been tested a lot. So we're at this wonderful time where essentially all of our test organizations have given us the thumbs up. It is, you know, can it be operated safely? Yes.

Dan: 33:44

Now we're in the point of even the operational test said, yes, we can operate it safely using our tactics and now the operators get build experience. That's where we made it. Those challenges did happen. It's almost too bad we couldn't have fast forwarded as the coal phase, the people that received just fast forwarded it through all that phase and just learned about it when someone puts their thumbs up at the test organizations and says, You're green, go, like use it now. That's where we're at.

Dan: 34:12

So anyway, that's the best way to put it is we did receive a considerable amount of performance data and made some considerable discussions that took quite some time. We have it now and we're ready to go out and use the plane. Awesome. Build experience.

Bryan: 34:28

Another big concern people had when the Kingfisher was announced was range. It definitely won't have the range that an H model Herc had, which makes sense. The H model Herc is a long range transport aircraft and it is not a SAR aircraft and this is not a long range transport aircraft. It is a SAR aircraft. How will this affect how we do SAR and how will we overcome this challenge?

Luc: 34:50

I would like to start by answering, you know, just so that we make sure everyone understands the range of this aircraft. It is possible for us to take off out of Comox and fly straight all the way to Gander, Newfoundland in one hop.

Bryan: 35:05

Yeah. Which is impressive. That's good legs.

Luc: 35:06

Which is so Especially for

Bryan: 35:08

a twin.

Luc: 35:08

It's not a hurt. Yeah. It still covers one one side of Canada to the other. Yeah. So just something when we talk yeah.

Luc: 35:15

It does have less range, but for context, it still goes quite far.

Dan: 35:19

Yeah. I think I I best answer it somewhat anecdotally too to say that there were a number of modifications made to the plane that improved its range performance, but at the end of the day, it's quite a lot more range than a Buffalo, it's less range than a Herc. And then anecdotally, would say probably the best conversation I had was not too long ago, was talking about with Major Dan Conway, who I know you know and interviewed there.

Bryan: 35:47

Yeah, actually on today as we record anyway, his second episode aired.

Dan: 35:52

Oh, cool. Yeah. So I'm chatting with him with the question, hey, buddy, how do I get gas in the Azores? That's the real question. And then his question back, oh, wonderful.

Dan: 36:03

Wow, you're going to the Azores and the 295. What's that going to be like? You know, because Dan's saying, can it fly from, you know, Saint John? How is that for fuel? And I say to Dan, yeah, I'm running my calculator right now.

Dan: 36:16

I can actually jump tomorrow, whatever it was, from Greenwood all the way to Seville tomorrow.

Bryan: 36:21

In Spain?

Dan: 36:22

Yeah. Based on the weather. And the answer back is like, woah, really? No kidding. Like amazement from, you know, another operator who's not in the fleet yet, not familiar with it.

Dan: 36:34

And that's pretty much what I get back on the plane. It's like, yeah, that's pretty good. Wow. I did not expect that.

Luc: 36:42

Sorry, Dan. I'll jump in I've I mean, I've really only been involved for the past year, but, you know, we talk about misinformation. Even within our own organization and other SAR folks operating the the Herc, when we tell them the the real operational limits, you know, the range, the the size of the runways we need, they're like, oh, I thought it was much worse than that. I thought you always needed 5,000 foot runways to take off, but we just landed it and took off from, Allure Bay, which is, like, 2,700, 28. Very small.

Luc: 37:15

Yeah. You you couldn't do that. The hurry was often too narrow. So you do gain some capability, in some aspects, but it is yeah. Even within our own organization, there is some this this project was a little, tainted.

Luc: 37:27

And, when you do share the real information out there, it the narrative changes.

Dan: 37:33

It's tough because there's mixture of the contract and a lot of people ended up understanding the contract might say it has to be able to operate from minimum 5,000 feet, but then that translate out into the translates out into the rumor mill as this aircraft takes 5,000 feet to take off. Yeah. You know, those type of communications, you know, a little bit of static gets missed in and, you know, and it can become miscommunicated. Yeah, I mean, it gonna take? We'll have fuel stops more than a Herc would.

Dan: 38:05

That's a fact. But can we execute and prosecute the SAR test we have in Canada? I mean

Luc: 38:10

Our fuel stops will be twice as fast though.

Dan: 38:13

Yeah. That's another I mean, it's a cool part about this plane is it's very fast.

Luc: 38:16

Takes way less fuel.

Bryan: 38:17

Yeah.

Luc: 38:17

So like turnaround's way quicker.

Dan: 38:19

Yeah. It has advantages. It has disadvantages. But realistically, it's fast. It has a long range.

Dan: 38:26

And if I said, I think it'll cover 98% of our cases, you'd have to say the same thing about our older platforms. You know, there are always going to be times and circumstances where, as we talked about before, the better decision is don't. But, I think this plane is going to do what we need it to do and cover.

Francois: 38:45

Bottom line range, it the search and rescue region in Canada from the Pacific to the Atlantic, and you were talking about the Azores, Dan, that that entire region can be covered by the kingfisher. The kingfisher may not have as much time on scene over a target in those extreme corners of the search and rescue region, whether mainly the the Atlantic side in the Arctic, but we have the range to prosecute a mission.

Bryan: 39:14

It also, at least from our exercises so far, seems to require much less time to actually do the job, to find whatever you're looking for.

Luc: 39:22

Absolutely.

Bryan: 39:23

Right? Like, finding things in ten minutes that take other aircraft forty five minutes or or they don't find at all. So, you know, maybe that's gonna be less of a less of a concern.

Francois: 39:34

Yeah. Yeah. Range is just one factor amongst many when you look at the the SAR tasking.

Luc: 39:40

But it's easy it's easy to get tunnel vision on this one aspect. But then you forget, you know, paint the full picture of every other aspect there or some other aspects that are this aircraft's much better.

Dan: 39:51

Mhmm.

Bryan: 39:53

There were also rumors about headroom being an issue for Sartex. That's a big one that you hear. It is not obviously not as tall as a Herc. It is a bit of a somewhat I can walk upright, but I'm just under six feet. Issues with space limitations and the SAR configurations.

Bryan: 40:10

Can you comment on that as well?

Dan: 40:12

Yep. I think I can say, again, it's a bit of a boring answer, but it lands between the two. At the end of the day, our kit that we carry on board is somewhere between the two aircraft. We carry a lot more pyro than the buff carried. We carry quite a bit less than the hut carried, but ample.

Dan: 40:29

The hut could just had no limits essentially. So kid is there. As far as working space, there are we carry a lot of gear and our space needs to be managed. That was true of the buff too. Again, when you have a Hercules, which is like you can park a fire truck in it, it's tough to compare, but we have the kit we need, the crew's on there.

Dan: 40:49

We have a little galley in the kitchen. A full working bathroom, which is worthwhile saying, is an amazing thing to have on a plane. Yes, it is. So as far as space goes, we're using it. It works well for the tasks that we have.

Dan: 41:01

We're actually carrying all the time right now eight people on the aircraft instead of our regular crew of six because we're training so much. We're managing it just fine. So as far as space, we have enough space. And then specifically to your headroom comment, I think you just answered it, is you're just under six feet, you're walking around. I think if you hit about six one, you are at the ceiling.

Dan: 41:23

I am six three. Cockpit, great. No problem for the the pilots. As far as the back at six three, you're gonna manage your you're walking under the ceiling.

Bryan: 41:34

You're gonna have to crouch a little.

Francois: 41:35

Yep. Just the reality.

Bryan: 41:36

Are you guys getting any feedback on that from Sartex and stuff? Because that's the big thing. Everyone's saying, what about the Sartex? What about them with their helmets on and their gear and

Dan: 41:44

No, I've had zero. So far I've had zero comments on the headroom.

Bryan: 41:48

Okay.

Dan: 41:48

People are busy in this plane. You're like, you're in your seats, you're strapped in, you're taking off. And then the moment they're not and we're getting into an exercise, they're busy. They're just

Bryan: 41:58

They're not focusing on if

Dan: 41:59

they have headroom? So no, honestly, have not heard the comment once.

Luc: 42:04

Yeah. Same with me. I've heard it from before, but now that we're operating, it doesn't seem to be an issue that we hear at all.

Bryan: 42:09

Okay. That's great.

Luc: 42:11

Speaking of weight, one I mean, it it does have less room, but one advantage it did is, and Francois can talk a little bit more, is it forced the RCF to purchase all brand new twenty first century survival gear. So now, like, instead of nineteen sixties huge green parkas that I'm sure you had, we have these really nice warm puffy jackets get down to minus 60 or something that that, you know, become smaller than a soccer ball or, like, you know, get compressed. So I have this big Coleman stove. They're numb it's nice, small, little jet boils. Yeah.

Luc: 42:45

You know, our our toboggan. Did I say it right? Tuboggan? Tuboggan. Tuboggan?

Luc: 42:50

French I French it up there. It got much lighter, smaller, easier to pull when, you know, for someone operating on the ground. So it did force us to we have a smaller space, but our gear is actually much better.

Francois: 43:04

Okay.

Bryan: 43:05

Awesome. We were just talking about weight. Weight and balance through the trip as the aircraft burns fuel was rumored to be a problem. Was that ever an issue? And if so, how have we gotten around that?

Dan: 43:16

We discussed weight and balance considerably. I would say that weight and balance is an interesting one. So this aircraft has fits, the sensor station, the bathroom, the galley in the front and then it's like an open in cargo aircraft behind it. However, we then fill it with these rigid SAR containers on both sides of the aircraft and fill them with kit. So while we initially looked at the aircraft and we said it is on the nose side of CFG, nose heavy side because of those mods, In the end, for a lot of discussion, like this went around and became a very strong point, in the end the answer was simple, which seemed to happen a lot.

Dan: 43:56

In the end we just said, let's just load it appropriately, put the equipment where it should be to make sure that the weight and balance is inside of our operating envelope that they provided to us with a certified aircraft and that's it. Actually, it's so simple. It's crazy. In the end, we just loaded it. We do watch though.

Dan: 44:17

I would say that this aircraft, as an aircraft commander, I want to know what the weight and balance is in the morning if we're going to load it in any abnormal way. So if we're going to have a ton of extra kit somewhere or if we're all the way up to max packs, I want to know. And generally speaking, they'll just say, nope, it's no issue. Even if the Sartex jump out and we drop a thousand kilograms of gear, we're still going to be inside. But they might say, we're gonna load it in a particular way.

Dan: 44:43

Like, we're gonna put those on the ramp today and we're gonna, time down there because that'll balance us. Okay.

Bryan: 44:49

That's good to hear.

Dan: 44:50

Yeah.

Bryan: 44:50

I I had heard I had heard some pretty, like I don't know if it was sensational or if there was ever discussions around this, but I had heard things like there's going to be sandbags that had to be moved from place to place. I had heard there was going to be a point where you couldn't use the bathroom if so so much fuel was burned.

Dan: 45:06

Yeah. No, I mean, so I'm going to go ahead and just tell you, yeah, all those things were said. Were they justified or said, know, were they were supposed to be listened to and provided as rumors? No. You know, a lot of discussion went well.

Dan: 45:19

How sensitive is it? And as we're reading, you've got to remember, we're reading and learning the weight and balance manual. And as an example, it says you should provide a weight and balance safety for people moving around in the aircraft. So that pretty much explains where what you just said going to the bathroom thing. But in the end, like I said, all it came down to was we're not in a Herc, this aircraft needs to have its weight and balance done every day and manage it.

Dan: 45:47

It's just it's normal now. We do the weight and balance. It's loaded correctly, so Like like many aircraft have

Bryan: 45:53

to do.

Dan: 45:54

Yeah. It's just we weren't used to it. I think it comes down to a lot of things as soon as we saw it. The Buffalo happened to be a crazy weight and balance envelope. Like, you could do anything and it would

Luc: 46:03

be in balance. It really seems like a non issue. I mean, before we we flight plan in the morning and with all our iPads and all the software we have, we know in the event that we are bingo fuel, we deploy all the Sartex through all the kid on board, and we get in this very situation that's hard to get. Like, well, before we land, we may have to shift some stuff in the back. Then you shift a few couple 100 pounds to the ramp, and it's done.

Luc: 46:27

But we already briefed it, we know it, it just kind

Dan: 46:29

of happens. I'd say it's an issue just like flight planning that you have to do it. You have to do your weight and balance, you have to flight plan and prove that you have a you're meeting your IFR requirements, you have to have the fuel for the trip. It's part of our planning that we do to fly.

Luc: 46:45

Yeah. It's not limiting our, any operations.

Dan: 46:48

Okay.

Luc: 46:48

Well, it just creates sometimes you have to shift some stuff around, but it it happens seamlessly.

Bryan: 46:53

Okay. Another problem that has been spoken about in pilot circles is the single engine climb performance in icing. How has this been overcome in mountainous regions in Canada?

Dan: 47:03

This aircraft was provided with penalties that we basically came with that big performance package. So it's not about any icing, it's about the fact that when you turn it on, the nose is down, it flies with a higher speed so it's not climbing as well. So that's one thing. And then it's about when they tested the performance of this aircraft at low speed, they said, well, we need to penalize this aircraft a lot because at low speed, it gathers ice in a bit of a away. So bottom line, that's all the test part that nobody probably should have heard about.

Dan: 47:34

The reality is, yes, we have penalties for the air craft applied when we're climbing in icing conditions and they're pretty significant. That's the answer. I'm not gonna give you like a performance, the actual percentage that you apply to your climb gradient, but that's what it is.

Bryan: 47:51

So how are we overcoming that challenge?

Dan: 47:52

Well, it's not that you overcome it, it's that you change your fuel load. So that is the same as every aircraft. It's funny when we got as deep as we could into this conversation, I was I was telling you, I finally looked up the Buffalo because I'm like, in the good old days, our aircraft didn't have to do anyway, I looked in the buff and I was like, oh my gosh, all the same penalties more or less are in this AFM for the Buffalo.

Bryan: 48:15

And for the listeners, an AFM is an aircraft flight manual. It's a document produced by the aircraft manufacturer containing detailed information on the operation of the aircraft.

Dan: 48:25

We just became so proficient and had so much experience in the Buffalo, we kind of distilled its information and fed what the crews needed to know down to them. Where now, this is a brand new plane, certified to the highest standard. It's right in our performance calculator. So we're applying everything as we should. And it has penalties that will cause you to reduce, your fuel load if you're like, I'm gonna climb today through ice.

Luc: 48:51

Yeah. Like, if you're in Cranbrook and you're super heavy and then the system comes in and there's tons of icing.

Dan: 48:58

It'll lower your takeoff weight.

Luc: 48:59

Maybe you need to defuel the aircraft or wait an hour till, like, some of the stuff goes. But

Bryan: 49:05

But this is normal like, I

Dan: 49:07

guess to give this context for listeners, this is normal airplane stuff. It is so normal. It's just like weight and balance is so normal. The trick has always been that the Hercules was just like this crazy powerful four engine massive machine. They're like, what do we do in ice?

Dan: 49:26

Because I remember asking them, they're like, we just fly through it. Like, it's indestructible and we have, you know, they have a little bit of they add something like some extra thousands of pounds per hour it's flying. But basically they're just like, we're good to go. Yeah. Whereas this is a twin.

Dan: 49:43

This is more like the buff. You take it into consideration. If you lose one, you're down to one.

Bryan: 49:47

Yeah.

Dan: 49:47

It's not the same. So yeah, it's normal. It's just that it's new. And now it's funny because now we look at it all. Our performance calculation includes everything.

Dan: 49:58

Like I said, in the Buffalo, I'm gonna go on a limb and say that that we had figured out a fast way to plan and you had some rules of thumb type thing Yeah. Compared to this plane where you're like, it's diving all the way to the bottom of the AFM and pulling all of it back up to the surface in your plans.

Bryan: 50:15

Well, I think a lot of those older aircraft, like coming from the Aurora world where you have you have like decades of experience on the fleet, I think you do develop those rules of thumb. And and also the performance charts are sometimes they're not that easy to use, like the legacy performance charts. And they can be challenging. They can be hard to be accurate with. So you kind of get all this experience and you say, well, actually, you know, we're going to turn an engine on any ice.

Bryan: 50:41

So what's the fuel penalty for that? And there is a chart for that. But we know from experience, from decades of experience, that it's so many 100 an hour. Right? So you apply that.

Bryan: 50:49

And same with climb penalties and and whatever else. So that that makes sense that that would have been what was going on in the buff world as well.

Dan: 50:55

Took the heart to to you.

Bryan: 50:56

Yeah. The last rumor mill issue that I'd like to address is that there was issues with Sartex parachuting safely from the aircraft. Is that true? And if so, how has it been overcome?

Francois: 51:07

Yeah. I can take that one maybe, initially anyways. So so para procedures have been tested on multiple occasions on the Kingfisher. We'll start off with that. Recently, it was noted that the the so for static jumps, for static deployment, the deployment bag wasn't always consistently maintained in the airflow behind the aircraft after a parachute exit.

Francois: 51:30

We have two examples in the last year and a bit of two of those deployment bags that were not consistently maintained where they came back in. So immediately what we've decided to do for training and to keep crew safe because that could potentially come as safety hazard. We've limited the kingfisher for free fall. Obviously, that has no limit. And for static jumps, only one static jump, and the static jump needs to be the last exit of a parachute sequence.

Francois: 52:08

For operational, taskings, there are no limits at this point. So it will be the decision of the team leader and the aircraft commander whether they wanna deploy free fall or static, and and what comes with that.

Bryan: 52:21

Okay. So you're saying during training, just one person can do a static jump?

Francois: 52:25

Yeah. And multiple free fall, but only one person can do a static jump unless we retrieve the the deployment bag Okay. Which we have been doing. So only one static jump at a time, is permitted in in training.

Luc: 52:38

Right. Pretty much every thirty seconds, you can drop. Someone can parachute out. You just need to retrieve part of the it's called a d bag.

Bryan: 52:47

Yeah.

Luc: 52:47

For static for static jumps is as soon as you leave the aircraft, your parachute deploys automatically. That's a static jump. And then there's a little part of the parachute that remains with the aircraft, and that's where you gotta pull in

Bryan: 52:59

Okay.

Luc: 52:59

Just at this time. Yep. But I'm confident we'll get it resolved.

Dan: 53:03

Okay.

Bryan: 53:03

Awesome. There will always be naysayers. If you could say one thing to those people who don't believe in the Kingfisher, what would it be?

Luc: 53:12

I would like to I often get asked as a CEO of fourteen Squatch what my thoughts are on the on the Kingfisher as a lot of people are probably expecting me to say, oh, you know, perhaps poor things about it. But as a as a father of three young kids and now as a qualified pilot on the Kingfisher, if my family is lost at sea or in the wilderness or in a drifting boat or sinking boat, I want the Kingfisher to go over any other aircraft. That includes model j's, the good old Buffalo, the the the Kingfisher's far superior, and even better than anything the US Coast Guard has. So that is how I like to answer that question.

Bryan: 53:54

Okay. I think that's a really resounding endorsement of that aircraft. Like, that's the whole that's kind of the gold standard. Right? Like, we used to say if somebody was being going through, like, a test or a like, proficiency check or something, like, would you wanna put your wife and kids on the plane?

Luc: 54:10

Yes. It's the same analogy. Yeah.

Bryan: 54:13

Yeah. That's huge.

Francois: 54:14

Yeah. I've I that is perfectly summarized by Luke.

Luc: 54:18

Okay.

Dan: 54:18

I mean, I I'd just say if I was speaking directly to the air crew out there, I would say it's true that we're, I think, honestly, losing those golden aspects of the old Herc and the old buff. But as far as being Sar Air Crew and what we can bring that I don't think any Air Crew will step into this plane and not be like, oh, wow. Okay. This is the way forward and be ready to leave those amazing platforms they were on before and just go all in. It's I think it blows the mind of everybody that gets in and uses it.

Dan: 54:51

At the end

Luc: 54:51

of the day, we are providing Canadians with a better search and rescue service.

Bryan: 54:56

I think, like, it has to be emphasized that, like you said, this is losing some capabilities that a Herc has. But that is because a Herc is not a search and rescue aircraft. It is a cargo aircraft. So of course it has certain advantages that come from being a cargo aircraft, but it doesn't have the sensors and the special like the all the specialties that make this a specialized from what we're we're talking about today, I'm becoming convinced it's probably the best search and rescue aircraft fixed wing that exists right now. And it has those because it's very specialized.

Bryan: 55:32

But because of that, there is no every aircraft is a compromise. Right? Every aircraft can be specialized towards one thing or a few things, but nothing can do it all. And I think that the things that have been sacrificed in terms of we'll say we'll say range or airlift capability have been more than made up for by the improved capability of detecting something very somebody very quickly and then affecting a rescue.

Francois: 55:59

Yeah. I I totally agree. And I think these naysayers, I can guarantee that the moment they would step on that aircraft or witness the capability of the Kingfisher would completely change their mind a 180 degrees. Luke,

Bryan: 56:14

when we were chatting yesterday, you mentioned that the SAR force here in Comox as a whole is really coming together to make sure you're accomplishing both the SAR mission as well as training these new cadres of Kingfisher crews and maintainers. Can you tell us a bit about that effort?

Luc: 56:26

Absolutely. I'll take this opportunity to give a shout out to 14 squadron members. They are doing a tremendous job right now. Not only are we training Comox crews to hold operations here in Comox, we have a full class of Greenwood four thirteen Squadron members, operators, and ground crew in house. We are also trying to make our courses more efficient and we're also augmenting four forty two squadron to provide aircrew so that they can actually hold the SAR standby posture.

Luc: 57:02

So we have a lot in place right now, we're working hard. Folks, however, are motivated, to get it done and, are grateful, you know, that the project's moving forward and happy to be part of it. But, big shout out to all the work and dedication they're they're they're giving the SAAR enterprise.

Bryan: 57:19

Awesome. So looking forward, what does the future look like for the Kingfisher, and how will it be rolled out across Canada?

Francois: 57:27

Well, very simply put, next base to be operationalized is Greenwood in Nova Scotia. So we're posting crew members, air crew, and technicians this summer. We're standing standing up the the structure and the support capacity of Greenwood. In the fall, there's going to be a transition. And in January 2026, the operationalization of the Kingfisher will be formal in Greenwood, followed by that will be Winnipeg, and the fourth and last base will be Trenton.

Francois: 57:57

So that that's essentially it.

Dan: 57:59

I think from a public perspective, it's gonna feel fast. Yeah. Like, it'll be, like, the next time you check-in, there'll be another base and then another base and another base.

Bryan: 58:09

Gents, that does it for our talk today on the two ninety five. I just wanna thank you so much for bringing me through your squadron spaces, showing us everything that you guys do and giving us a chance to go for a flight on the 295. It's just been amazing to see the work you do and see kind of all the changes that are going on here. It's been really, really cool. So thank you for that.

Bryan: 58:29

Thank you for your time today and giving up your well, what's been now several hours of time to make this show happen. I really, really appreciate it. And, yeah, thank you.

Francois: 58:38

Awesome. Yeah. You're welcome. It was great having you here at, at 19 Wing 442 And 418.

Dan: 58:44

Yep. Thanks, Brian. It's been a blast.

Luc: 58:47

It's our pleasure, Brian. It's good to see that you're, you're now also a believer.

Bryan: 58:51

Yeah. I am a convert for sure. Great. Alright. Okay.

Bryan: 58:55

That wraps up our three part series with Luke, Francois, and Dan on all things c two ninety five Kingfisher. Thank you once again, gentlemen, for having me on location in Comox. For next week, we will once again be having a break as we will be on vacation. For the week following, we will start a series on search and rescue as well as counter drug interdiction in The Caribbean with PAL Aerospace and two retired RCAF members. Do you have any questions or comments about anything you've heard in this show?

Bryan: 59:27

Would you or someone you know make a great guest, or do you have a great idea for a show? You can reach out to us at the pilotprojectpodcast@Gmail.com or on all social media at at pod pilot project. And be sure to check out that social media for lots of great videos of our RCAF and mission aviation aircraft. As always, we'd like to thank you for tuning in and ask for your help with the big three. That's like and follow us on social media, share with your friends, and follow and rate us five stars wherever you get your podcasts.

Bryan: 59:54

That's all for now. Thanks for listening. Keep the blue side up. See you. Engineer, shut down all four.

Bryan: 01:00:02

Shutting down all four engines.