Episode 89: The Bangseat: Ejecting from the CT-155 Hawk, instructing in Moose Jaw and Saudi Arabia, and flying the CC-295 Kingfisher Part 1 - Rock Veilleux
This podcast is presented by Skies Magazine. If you're interested in the Canadian aviation industry, Skies is your go to multimedia resource for the latest news, in-depth features, stunning photography, and insightful video coverage. Whether you're an aviation professional or enthusiast, Sky's is dedicated to keeping you informed and bringing your passion for aviation to life. Visit skysmag.com to learn more and subscribe to stay updated on all things Canadian aviation.
Bryan:Alright. We're ready for departure here at the pilot project podcast, the best source for stories and advice from RCAF and Mission Aviation Pilots brought to you by Sky's Magazine. I'm your host, Brian Morrison. And today, I'm joined by c two nine five Kingfisher pilot, Rock Veia. Rock, thanks so much for joining us today.
Rock:Hi. My pleasure.
Bryan:In today's episode, we'll be exploring his early passion for flying his path into the RCAF, his selection for fast jets, and his dramatic ejection from a CT one fifty five Hawk. We'll also talk about his recovery and how he found his way into the world of instructing. But before we get into any of that, let's go through Rock's bio. Rock always wanted to be a pilot. His passion for flying began early leading him to join the air cadets where he completed both the glider and private pilot license programs.
Bryan:At 18, he entered the CIC program and spent most weekends at the glider site in Bagotville, Quebec. In 1999, he was accepted into the Centre de Formation aeronautique du Quebec or CQFA, graduating in 2002 as a commercial pilot with multi engine and IFR or instrument flight ratings. He went on to work as a flight instructor and later flew for a regional airline. In September 2004, Rock joined the Royal Canadian Air Force while simultaneously pursuing his university studies at the Universite du Quebec at Chikutomay or UQAC graduating in 2006. He began phase two flight training in Moose Jaw in early two thousand and seven and was subsequently selected for phase three fast jet training on the CT-one 155 Hawk.
Bryan:On 04/18/2008, Rock and his instructor were forced to eject following an engine malfunction resulting in the loss of the aircraft and significant injuries. After a fourteen month recovery, he returned to complete phase three, completed fast jet transition training and earned his qualified flight instructor or QFI qualifications. He served at two Canadian Forces Flying Training School and fifteen Wing Moose Jaw until November 2016. Rock was posted to four zero seven Squadron in Comox in November 2016 and left the RCAF the following year to work overseas with British Aerospace or BAE Systems Saudi. In October 2020, he rejoined the Canadian Armed Forces as part of the nineteen wing reserve flight serving as the operations support squadron or OSS plans officer.
Bryan:He transferred back to the regular force seven months later and became the executive assistant to the nineteen wing commander in summer two thousand twenty one. In January 2024, Rock began initial conversion training on the CC two nine five Kingfisher. On 05/01/2025, he was posted to 442 Search And Rescue Squadron as the first air crew member to hold search and rescue posture on the new airframe. Rock is married to Diana and together they have three wonderful children. So let's talk about your early days and your years in cadets.
Bryan:Take us back to the very beginning. When did flying first become a real passion for you?
Rock:Well, I think like this passion started like with my dad actually. Okay. We all have the aviation magazine. I think he was subscribed to all of them. So every couple of weeks we're getting like a stack of magazines.
Rock:And I didn't read English back then, but like I was just looking at the pictures. Looking at the center picture was always a two page airplane picture that I will always putting on the side of like a full box of those pictures growing up. And I think that's where it started. He brought me flying too. He was a private pilot.
Rock:So we flew Cessnas together. Me and my brother, we're flying with him. And that's where I think everything started. And that 13 year old I joined the Air Cadets, my end game there was to get my pilot license. So I was on the glider site in Baggettville every weekend in spring and fall since I was like 15.
Rock:And that's where like just like the special I grew up, like until I get to the the glider course when I was 16. And after that, like, I was on the glider site every weekend in spring, fall until I think I was twenty twenty two before like I left actually for the air force. Like I spent all my spring there and fall. So that was good.
Bryan:Yeah. You really have to put in your time when in the cadet gliding program, like you put in all your weekends, but in a good way. Like at first you're kind of earning your way through, you're going out with like when your cadet squadron goes there, then you get your glider license and then you're there flying every weekend just building time and enjoying yourself.
Rock:Yeah, exactly. And the thing is on my group, most of us went in the air force after that. Like Francois Roy is at 04:30. He's a helicopter pilot. His brother Martin Roy is a colonel somewhere in the air force.
Rock:Maxime Renaud was with us too. He was a fighter pilot. So all of us were like just hanging the weekends pushing gliders around and just like enjoying our life.
Bryan:That's awesome. What what do you remember most vividly about earning your glider and private pilot licenses?
Rock:For the gliders, it's all short of flights are. So we're flying the Schwarzer two thirty three. In Baguioville, we're flying in the winch. So every flight was about three minutes just going up like to 800 feet and just like Yeah. Emergency return all the time.
Rock:So that was like amazing for Logsbook. I have like so many Logbook of three minutes flights. But what I really enjoy about lighting is like how calm it is. You just hear like the sound of like the wind, you know, like there's no engine. Everything is like no it's not assisted by hydraulics.
Rock:So everything is like, you feel everything, you control the gliders, and you just have one landing. So, like, you better be good at it. If not, that wouldn't be a difficult one. But, yeah, that's why I remember for the glider. In Vagadil, the the course was was actually very nice.
Rock:Like, doing towing planes, flights were a little bit longer. But again, like, the glider course is very good to learn, like, how to fly a plane. Like I said, like, you have one approach to do. So, like, you cannot do a go around. So this is why, like, I really enjoy the gliders.
Rock:Like, you have one shot at it. And, we're getting good at it. Like, I remember, like, in Battle the World, we have, like, those orange cones. And I was, like, where, like, the the the the site commander was saying, like, you need to stop by there because, like, to just, like, change a passenger in, like, the air cadets. So we were, like, inside one meter is, like, of the cones all the time.
Rock:So we're getting very precise. And at the end of the day, like, that's all you wanna do. Like, you wanna be very precise when you're flying and, like, gliders is a great way to learn that.
Bryan:Yeah. You're bringing back a lot of memories for me as well of my time in the cadet gliding program. And you're right, like, because you do so many launches. So we at my gliding center, we had winch and tow planes. So for listeners, the winch is exactly what it sounds like.
Bryan:Like picture a winch on the front of a truck, but this is like a huge winch driven by a giant engine and it's a huge spool of cable and they lay out the cable down the length of the runway, attach it to the glider and then reel it in as fast as they can. And it the glider takes off like it's on a like a kite on a string basically.
Rock:That's exactly what it is. It's a kite. You're just going up.
Bryan:Yeah. And you're pulling like full back on the stick. So it feels like you're going up like a rocket ship. Like it's an amazing feeling. It is.
Bryan:It is. Yep. Yeah. And then as you get better and better, like you say, you develop that precision. And I can remember like you look over at the stopping point, you're looking to the side and like putting the brakes on just exactly where you need to be.
Bryan:And it's a really satisfying thing to learn to do.
Rock:Yeah, exactly. You're very proud at the end of the day. Yep. That's awesome.
Bryan:Yeah. What do remember about your private pilot license course?
Rock:Yeah. I did that in Trois Riviere at Netherware service when I was kids. I was like 17 at that point. I was very now it's more interesting too. Like now you have an engine.
Rock:So now like it's you're in the air for like hours if you want. I would say it's little bit more forgiving too. So if you need to just like the bad approach, you just go around. But now at that point is where like the the checks are coming more important, you know, like the before the name check, like, you know, like in the gliders, like, yeah, the the checks are like a couple of words and like it's done. But like when you go from like now an engine, so now you have like more stuff to check, just make sure like, you know, you're always good, like your fuel, your time, the radio communication that we have on the gliders.
Rock:But like it's always like coming to land. And like Towery said, you land. But like with an aircraft now, like you just like a position report and you talk to other people too. So like this, you know, like in aviation, we're always talking about like the bucket, like the bucket has to get like bigger and bigger. And you know, when you're 17, like you're so eager, you wanna fly.
Rock:And so it's a great time to learn from it. I was like flying planes and I didn't have my driver license yet. Yeah. But I was able to just fly like this piece of metal in the sky everywhere in Quebec. And that's a that was great.
Rock:That was super, super good. And at that point, like, I really knew I wanted to fly airplane for life and hopefully, like, make a living out of it. So super happy with it. And again, we'll talk about it a little bit later. But, like, my small group of people, hair cadets, we always seem like the all same people, like, try seem to follow each others.
Rock:So after I did my private license, I went to the CQFL, Saint Quebec, Montreal Mass Surveillance again. On my first day, some people that I did gliders and I did my private license with the cadets show up and boom, we're at school together now. So the parties just like keep going. So it's nice.
Bryan:Yeah. I mean, you really end up in a really great community. And it sounds like your gliding center in Beggaville had a great community there.
Rock:Yeah. And all those people like they're like, oh, they all have patience, you know? Like, it's not like, oh, no, it's Saturday and I would like to be on on the gliding side at 07:30. Like, it's just like I'm tired. I was like, man, like, were like going out on Friday night all together.
Rock:It's like the same group. And like the next morning, I remember like showing up and Martin Roy was like with his like car and like like blasting music and showing up at 07:30 and we're half asleep, half awake and boom, man, just untying the gliders pushing them for the launch. Have our side commander was Dominic Girard. And, yeah, it was just like like this nice group of people that, like, I really enjoy working with them. And I'm still, every time I go home, like, I wanna meet them and just, like, just chitchat, just like catch up.
Rock:So yeah, that was that was great. It's a good time. Like, it's just like, it's just a good time. And like, by the end of day, like, we're like so tired. So going back home, eat a little bit, go for a long night of sleep and Sunday morning we'll do it again.
Bryan:Yeah. Yeah. Those are great weekends. That's great memories.
Rock:Oh, they are.
Bryan:And then you like that so much that at 18 you entered the cadet instructor cadre or CIC program. What motivated that decision and what did that stage of aviation development look like?
Rock:Yeah. It seemed like that was like the normal progression for me. So like you reach 18, you're too old for the air cadets. And I just still wanted to give that to the program. That was like a it's a great program.
Rock:So I joined the CIC. It's you're like like a reserve officer, but like not really reserve, but you're just taking care of the air cadets. So that's what I did. I became a instructor on a glider. So, yeah, that that was like my first haircut to be an instructor.
Rock:Saint Jean Lucie showed you. Yeah. And again, like, it's just like a normal consideration. At one point, like, flying is super good. But like, if you want to be very good at it, you need to teach it.
Rock:And when you teach it because like everybody is different. So like somebody will get like the hint on something or like some other people who have difficulty with like the same thing. So as an instructor, you need to find a way to you cannot, like, deliver the teaching the same way. So every person is different. So you need, like, to tweak trying to find a way that the people will understand what you wanna say and you want them to to do the right thing at the end.
Rock:So when you're just like the pilot, like, have your way, you you understand how it works and everything. But now when you have to teach it and you're doing like your way and like the student have no clue what how to do it. Like, he doesn't understand the way you do it. You have to find another way for him to understand. And this is where, like, your your flying bucket get bigger because now you're getting more tool.
Rock:And so and you're getting better at it. And sometimes you understand better too. You're just like, oh, if I do it another way, it works better or just get better performance maybe. So, yeah, that was my first act to be an instructor.
Bryan:Yeah. I did a summer of instructing at CRGS in Belleville, Ontario, and it was very eye opening for me as well. Like just that experience of going from just doing it to having to explain how you're doing it. Before you learn to explain it, you're just kind of intuitively doing it. You feel what you need to do and you make those changes.
Bryan:Like you've been doing it for years so you know exactly what you need to do. When you need to teach it, it's a whole different skill. Did you find that those skills transferred when you started instructing in the air force?
Rock:Yes. Because at the end of the day, like, it's like it's the same it's the same game. It's just like now you have like more stuff to teach or like the I won't say like weapon system, but the aircraft is just more complex. So you have like more stuff to show. And it's not like just like doing like a 30 degrees bank now and I keep like the cord in the middle for the gliders.
Rock:Now you just like now you're doing like a sixteen and two and you have to maintain the G's and maybe now we're going like upside down. Or if you do like formation on these other aircraft, you don't want to hit. And so like all this thing just become more complex. But at the end of the day, it's all the same basics. Yeah.
Bryan:Let's talk about some of your civilian flying. Why did you choose to attend the Centre de Fourmacian Euron Natique du Quebec and what were those years like?
Rock:Right. So I'm from there. I'm from Jean Pierre. So like that was like just in my backyard. My cousin was flying for Jazz.
Rock:I have a lot of people in my family like flying airlines flying airlines or fixing planes. There's a lot of people with Lincoln Aviation. So like for me, that was like the path to go into aviation, like as fast as possible. I wanted to go to the RMC, but at that point, know, like you're never sure if you will go pilots and you go like to do the process and everything. And for me at that point, like the university degree was like, what do I need university degree going?
Rock:I can do just like my three years and I will be a pilot and I will be a commercial pilot. So I put like this this thing on a like, I forget about like the RMC. I said, like, I don't wanna go to a military college. I don't wanna go to university. I just wanna get like my my deck diplomats at College L and just like and fly because that's what you want.
Rock:You wanna fly. So I apply. And yeah, I got accepted. That was very nice. That was like, yeah, you know what, like you go for school and you fly planes.
Rock:That's what school is. So first year, it's more academic. So you're doing like the the basic college classes. But like second year, you do your your private license on Beach C 23. Not sure if they're still flying that, but, like, yeah, they that's what they they are like back then.
Rock:And yeah. So, like, someday you go to school and someday you show up at the airport and school is flying. So the it's just like it is. It's fabulous. It's super good.
Rock:And like you're building your hours. So if I remember correctly, the first year is about one hundred hours of flying. And you finish with a private license. Everything is paid for. The only thing you have to pay, it's like the Transport Canada examiner.
Rock:So like when you do your flight test, but everything else is paid. So like it's it's amazing. You don't have to pay for for flying like something. No. Like, as you know, like it's very expensive to fly even on a single engine aircraft.
Rock:So and that's second year too. And like I said, like, all of great guys there, people I knew from Air Cadets meet new people. Everybody wants to fly. Everybody has like this aviation taste. So like spirit is high.
Rock:Everybody is like so motivated. And at the end of year two, you're selected for three paths. So that's bush pilots, helicopters, or a multi engine IFR. So if you go Bush pilot like year three, you will fly Cessna 185 on floats helicopters, fly and that's my time. So maybe like the aircraft change, but you fly a Bell two zero six in order to fly that.
Rock:Or if you go a multi engine, you fly Navajo. And at that point, like that's that's what happened at the end of second year. And third year you go, you do your part. For me, I won multi engine. So I finished with the multi engine IFR rating and you're a commercial pilot.
Rock:So you have like two hundred hours two hundred or two fifty, I don't remember. And yeah. So you finish, you graduate and you're ready to be in the industry start on the small airlines.
Bryan:Yeah. So you mentioned you graduated as a commercial pilot with a multi engine and IFR rating. How prepared did you feel for the aviation world at that point?
Rock:Well, I was very young, very eager to fly. You know, like I thought like the world was my oyster, so I was ready to just like just to go. So I thought I saw everything and I was ready for everything. But like, I guess life had other idea for me. So that was a little bit I I will say like you're ready because you have the license, but you don't have the experience.
Rock:Know, like pilots get like very dangerous when they are like about a thousand hours. When like they think they have the experience and like the like super they think they know everything and that's where like you realize that you don't know as much as you think and you're very dangerous. So like I was not even like at that level there. And but yeah, I finished with that license. And after that, I just crossed the runway and I worked for Exacto.
Rock:It was not at that point, it was like much smarter than what it is right now. Back then, I was like a flying school and with one Seneca, one Navajo. So that was like a small company. So across the runways, I did my And like a lot of people start like that, just doing their instructor license. And funny enough, their first contract was teaching air cadets again.
Rock:So my first summer there as an instructor, I was teaching air cadets for their private license.
Bryan:That must have been in a pretty cool kind of full circle moment for you.
Rock:Oh, yeah. That's that's very good because now you're not like you're, you know, you're civilian, but you're still teaching to the air cadets. And for an instructor, that's amazing. They have like seven weeks to do a private license. So, like, yeah, you work you work.
Rock:You you do the flying. And after seven weeks, it's like, they get their license. So it it's great. And after that, you get, like, some civilian people who have to work. They have family and everything.
Rock:So they will fly one or two flights a week. Sometime, like, they will skip couple of weeks or, like, their license take to get, like, the private license takes, months. And now they get, like, mad because, like, you don't get the level and so you need to do a flight. You're just like, well, you haven't flown in three weeks. So of course, you lost those things.
Rock:But the Air Cadets are so short and they're young and they just want to learn and they're therefore get their private license. So yeah. So that was good. And I I thought taught him like for two summers with that company.
Bryan:That's awesome. So That was that was very
Rock:good.
Bryan:That's awesome. Very awesome. Yeah. You worked as you've mentioned as a flight instructor and also later with a regional airline. What lessons from those civilian flying jobs still influence you today?
Rock:Yes. So like the same company when like the summer was done, I was lucky enough that they kept me at the end of the first summer. And so now they will train you as like first officer, like co pilots on like their small twin. And like the group was very small at that point. I think we're like just like four pilots with me.
Rock:And so like, they just like teach you how to fly the twin engine and they bring you the other contracts and everything. So yeah, I was flying with them. And at the end, like I was flying all by myself, a single seat Seneca, like bringing some people around like Quebec, Northern Quebec, Eastern Quebec. And this is where the learning starts for real. You know, I was still again, like early twenties and you just like, you're you're the king of the world.
Rock:You are in your twin aircraft flying like around and for the first time, now you're getting like the big decision like about icing turbulence and those aircraft are not like super performance. So you're always flying in a bad weather.
Bryan:So
Rock:yeah, it's very humbling, I will say. And I did like few mistakes back then and they still haunt me from time to time. Like when I look at the GFA and I'm looking at the icing, I'm always thinking about one flight that I flew from Sitzel back to Saint Dennerie. And I remember that night that was like that was at the that was in spring, early spring. And there was a little bit like of snow falling in Sitzel and I decided to take off because there was no pirate ups and I get GFE, I have no icing.
Rock:But like as soon as I took off, start getting some icing and I request you go back Sitzel and they said like, oh, negative. The runway is closed for icing rain. Oh, no. And, and I tried to just like go, like, like Becomel and Jurgen Musky and everything was like icing and icing and like slowly. Yeah.
Rock:And it was at night and the aircraft is picking up some ice. Just like, I remember being max power, like stuck at 8,000 feet and slowly descending like, and all the passenger are just like talking, like nothing is happening. And like, you just like getting white in the front, Turn off the wing inspection light and you see all the the ice forming and like use the boots. I'm not like, that's not enough. And one point Montreal just requests, asked me if I want direct Baggageville.
Rock:Said, yeah, I want direct Baggageville. And I got out of like this, like icing cloud icing area. And I remember like the the moon shining and see all the ice on the aircraft and be stuck like super low. And be like, oh my God, that was an experience. And coming back to San Antonio, the runway were full of snow.
Rock:The contract to remove the snow was done for the year. So now just like trying to land on one side of the runway, there's less snow. And I remember like the, the mechanics opening the anger door, like, it's almost like a movie, like opening the anger door with all the lights and you just bring out the small Seneca, like close to the doors, shut down the engine and the guest is smoking a cigarette and is looking at me with a big smile. So that was a tough one. And it's just like, wow.
Rock:And like the the ice on the the wing tips and everything and the the props had ice too. So like all the ice, like remove all the pain on the side of the other the aircraft. And and you're looking at that like a just like as as a young pilot with maybe like five or six hundred hours and you're like, oh, wow. Okay. That's like nature is unforgettable.
Rock:Like, if you do a mistake like that again, like, I got lucky that time, you know?
Bryan:For
Rock:sure. So yeah. So every time like I look at the GFA and like we have the discussion, I always have like this flight in the back of my mind saying like, well, that will not happen today. We'll just make sure like I'd rather be on the ground wishing flying than being flying, wishing to be on the ground. Yeah.
Bryan:Yeah. That's that's the truth for sure. Yeah. And Rock mentioned the GFA. That's a graphical area forecast.
Bryan:It's like basically a map that shows you the weather for to help pilots plan their flight out. Let's shift gears a bit and talk about joining the RCAF in your phase two training. What pushed you to join the Royal Canadian Air Force in 2004 while also tackling your studies at UQAC?
Rock:So what happened at that point? That was like post nineeleven. And so jobs were not like super good for the airlines. I was a little bit stuck there. I have like some, let's say, like personal issue with other people in the company and everything.
Rock:And like, I was like at this at this point, I was like, okay, what are we doing now? And and I met like this recruiting guy at the recruiting center, like, great guy. And he was like, guys, I like this new program for secure for, like, people who just graduate from there. It's a super quick university degree. We take some credits from your CJEP, transfer that to university.
Rock:And like in two years, you get your your university diploma and you're shipped to Moose Jaw. You skip portage because you're already like a commercial pilot. And like, boom, you're like right in the air force. And as soon as you start, like, you're on the waiting list to go in Muzha. So there will be like no delis.
Rock:And I was like, alright. Sounds good. I will just let's apply and see what happens. So three of us applies. Cal Bassa, who's now like should be a full call now.
Rock:Cal was there. Eric St. Georges, who now is flying for Air Canada, and me. So the three of us signed that morning. And I signed a thing, like, on a Thursday, and I had to be at university on the Monday morning.
Rock:So that was, like, a a very quick change. And boom, I was in the air force. So they sent me at I did, like, my degree. That was that was the best time of my life. Like, honestly, we we just, like, set the schedule to course on Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Thursday party, Friday party, Saturday party, recovering Sunday, studying Monday, and do it again.
Rock:So that was like that was a great time. And we're like paid as a two LTs. So we're making like good money to to just to go to university. And, in the summer, we did like the basic course in Saint Jean, basic training and back at it for the year two and finished year two, get the degree and were like on the willingness to go in Moose Jaw. For me, that was not like very long.
Rock:I was I think that was about five months. So I start like my master degree and and I was in Mujah, like in April 2004. I show up there.
Bryan:That's awesome.
Rock:And I was like super quick, super nice.
Bryan:Yeah. Because so many people like I waited like eighteen or nineteen months and that was pretty common in around 02/2010.
Rock:Yeah. I remember those times.
Bryan:Yeah. So that was very fortunate that you were able to get there in that kind of a time. Now you talked about going to phase two, you were the only French speaker on course seven zero four for phase two. What was that experience like especially going through without going through second language training first?
Rock:Oh, well, that was was interesting. So because I was commercial pilots, they they assume that I was able to speak a good English and you always learn never assume. So I show up on course always being able to read English and listen English is good, but I could not talk. Like, that was terrible. I was like the only Franco in my course, like, Blake McNaughton can talk about it.
Rock:And but yeah. So but when the when in Rome, so like you I was the only Franco I have to just like I have to learn. I remember like Don Nix, one of my instructor asked a question, like, during class. And he told me, like, years after. He said, like, Rock, you have I have no clue what you said, but you said it with so much confidence.
Rock:And I was very sure that that was the right answer. Yeah, that was great. So, yeah. And that's it. The thing is when you're flying with good instructors, they don't really talk a lot in the aircraft.
Rock:So it will be a long briefing. And when you go flying, flying is flying. So if you do a loop, what he will say like it's back pressure, release pressure, wind drop. So they will just keep like in minimum words. So even if you don't really speak it well, that's I don't need to speak it.
Rock:I need to fly the aircraft. So I did pretty well on the course. I finished second on the course. First one was Dan. Dan wanted to go multi engine.
Rock:So that's what happened. He went multi. I wanted to go jet. So I went jet And everybody else in the course when like other selection was helicopters.
Bryan:What was going through your mind when you found out you were selected for jets?
Rock:Oh, man. Just like that was that was amazing. That was just right before Christmas. That was like, oh, man, just everything is coming up like this. It was the best time.
Rock:You like you just like now your dreams comes true. You will fly like those amazing aircraft. You just go so fast, like so powerful. And the mission seemed to be like so interesting. So yeah, that was that was super good.
Rock:That was super good.
Bryan:And you finished phase two on a Friday and started the Hawk for phase three on the following Monday. What was that transition like?
Rock:Yeah. So back then, so you're going like phase two, you're in phase two Bravo was like a little bit like advanced training on the Harvard before going on a jet. Right. Right. So I came back after that Christmas.
Rock:I did phase two Bravo and yeah. And I finished phase two on a Friday and on Monday morning I was on the jet course. So like the the delays back then weren't there was no delays. That was back to back. That was quite amazing.
Rock:So yeah, you go from like you're landing from your final cross country and you don't get wings back then on the two Bravo. So the wings were on the on the Hawk. So yeah, you're showing up, finish your course, get your first course report and boom. Now you start going school on Monday. I was with a bunch of Singaporeans.
Rock:One, I was two Canadians on the course. And now like the the real the real work starts. Like it's now it's getting you're getting there, you know? Like it's now it's a fast aircraft. Now we're talking about tactics.
Rock:We're talking about like bomb droppings and all the thing that, like, you don't really see in the movie, like, what the the pilots needs to know and be aware of. So not like the excitement is, like, bubbling inside you. You're just like, alright. We're we're getting there like that. That's the real thing now.
Bryan:Now, you know, a lot of fighter pilots, a lot of jet pilots, they have a call sign and a lot of people assume your name is a call sign, but that's actually your legal name is Rock. Right? So can you tell us that story where where people were making those assumptions about your name?
Rock:Well, it's it it still happens today. So that's very funny. Like, when I show up, know OGT at four to five. Yeah. Everybody was calling me rock, rock, rock, rock.
Rock:And that's good. And at one point, like, I think I was going like on a on a, like, maybe like a cross country or something like that or maybe a course. And like you always like feel like the tombstone of the on the paper and say like, my name Rock, Rock Veyer and, like, send it back to, like, the officer. And I remember, like, the guys coming back to me and said, like, hey, man. Like, your name your call sign is not your name.
Rock:You need to put your your name there. I'm like, that's my name. That's how I'm called. And the guy's just, like, open up big smile and say, that's the best name ever. And like, you know, and like, nobody, like, never give me a call sign.
Rock:Like, everybody, like, just call me Rock and, like, I said, like, that's the best call sign ever. And, like, I still actually, that's when you mentioned that, like, couple of weeks ago, I was we were going in the RON.
Bryan:And for listeners, an RON is when the aircraft remains overnight.
Rock:And one of the guys came and over the paper, he said, like, just to confirm, that's your legal name, Rock. So, yep, that that's my name. That's how I'm called. So, yeah, it's very funny.
Advertisement:Yeah. CAF Outlooks is Canada's three day conference where the Canadian Armed Forces and Industry shape the direction of defense and security. From April, CAF leaders speak directly to industry on current projects and future procurement needs, with each day focused on one environment: Army, Navy, and Air Force. The CAF Outlook series is presented by CAD C, the Canadian Association of Defense and Security Industries. Learn more or register today at defenseandsecurity.cacaf.
Bryan:So obviously, from the title of this episode, we're going be discussing your ejection from the CT 155 Hawk. But before we get into the ejection itself, what were your impressions of the Hawk early in phase three training?
Rock:It's fast. So, you know, like some people always say like you strap the jet on you, like you're not strapping yourself in the jet. Like, that's the the way the Hawk feel. So like for the first time, like you're sitting on an aircraft, like there's no prop in front of you, like everything is behind you, you know, and the jets. And you're like, sit like right at the pointy end of the aircraft.
Rock:It's very tight. It's a British design. So I'm a little bit of bigger guy. So yeah, you first time you sit on the jet, like the only thing you see, it's like, it's a canopy, the canopy bow. You see like the HUD, like the, you have the instruments a little bit lower and that's what you see.
Rock:Like, you really feel like you strap the jet on you and like, the side of the cockpit, like, your elbow, like, touch both side and, like, you're it's it's a it's a go kart. You know? Like, it's it's it's super nice. Like, even, like, the the yoke, like, the the the control columns is bending in the middle because there's not enough room. So it's not like a full stick.
Rock:Like, it's a full stick in the middle. Like, it bends left and right. That's for your other arm. But, like, you're so tight that, like, you cannot go like like a normal stick thing. So yeah.
Rock:So the aircraft is is small. And you close the canopy and everything, and you're, like, in this very small bubble. And the instructor is a little bit back to you. There's, a window between you and the instructor. So you don't really see the instructor and and you go.
Rock:And like the first I remember, like, my first takeoff on the Hawk, you're like sitting on the bottom, you do a slam check. So you go full power And like you have like the engines pulling up and you have like this amazing like jet engine sound. And I remember like releasing the brakes and it's not like your car that like it just like goes. You release the brakes and like it just like slowly goes forward. And you're like, seriously?
Rock:That's what happened. And like few seconds after, just like it kicks and now like you just, holy. And now like you're going you're going down the runway. And you pull and like the aircraft once fly and boom, you zoom up. The first time I almost over speeded the gears because the acceleration is so high.
Rock:So you really have to keep the nose up as soon as you're out, gear up and you're up for a very good ride.
Bryan:Yeah. I can only imagine how that felt because for me, the Harvard two felt kind of like that. Like after flying to small aircraft, I went straight to the Harvard. I skipped phase phase one And I had a multi engine rating, but, know, the Harvard felt like a rocket ship. So I can only imagine the Hawk must have been amazing.
Rock:Oh, yeah. It's amazing. It's really amazing.
Bryan:Yeah. So let's give some context here before we get into the ejection. On 04/18/2008, a CT one fifty five Hawk training aircraft crewed by a student pilot in the front seat and a Hawk qualified instructor in the rear seat was on a routine instrument training flight when an accident occurred. The flight safety investigation determined that the engine had failed and subsequently seized as a result of loss of a low pressure turbine or LPT blade. Following the loss of the LPT blade, a non standard emergency landing profile was flown in the presence of severe engine vibrations which resulted in poor aircraft positioning from which a successful landing was not possible.
Bryan:As a result, both pilots ejected from the aircraft and suffered non life threatening injuries. So it's probably pretty crazy to hear that read out and it's very sterile and technical because it was such a crazy experience for you. What's that like to hear that read out?
Rock:Well, it's yeah. It's it's very sterile. It's no emotion, you know. It's
Bryan:a Yeah.
Rock:Like a robot will read it and like you you are talking about stuff in there and I just like the picture coming back in my head and you're like, well, that was not the way I would have write it down. Yeah. But it's it's correct. It's totally correct what you said. Yeah.
Rock:I will have put a little bit more emotion in it.
Bryan:Yeah. You were the student pilot on 04/18/2008. When things began to go wrong, how did you first recognize something was off?
Rock:Alright. So that was beginning of the training on a hog. That was an I f four. So that was flight number four for I s flying. I got a demo in the morning of a PFL, Donkey Practice Force Landing.
Rock:So that's the the three sixty degrees to come back to land if we have like any like emergency. So I got the demo, on the morning. And now we're on Friday afternoon, like a very odd spring day in the Prairies in April. And and we'll go we'll go for the I f four. So we took off.
Rock:In Mujah, we have, like, an I f four departure. So we have a nine DME arc around the field. Sorry. And I will position you to go in the training area. It was on the south.
Rock:So we took off. We did like the nine DME arc. I know in like the the math when I'm supposed to start my turn for grade one to intercept like the nine DME arc, thinking about the winds and all the stuff like a student's like we all that was brief on the ground, but you don't wanna miss it up. Know? You wanna be good for it.
Rock:And I'm still climbing. And I remember like passing 10,000 feet. We got like a weird sound. Like, just like something like something is different, you know, like, broken, but like almost like somebody like you just like hit the side of your car. Like this sound of like a bit of bang.
Rock:And like, I'm just froze. I remember, like, the back seat, there was a Frank Wagner. He's a German instructor, like f four pilot. He was in t 38, full experience. And he just came with his German, like, accent and said, oh, just do your emergency response.
Rock:So, like, I'm almost thinking that is just like a simulated emergency. Back then, we're still doing a simulated emergency in the flight.
Bryan:Mhmm.
Rock:So, like, I was expecting him to say, all right, emergency secure. Keep going. So, like, I'm doing, like, easy Zoom, trying to just, like, I don't remember if I bring back the power, but that was that was part of the emergency checklist. And, like, and slowly starting a right turn, towards the field, like, Beautiful weather. I see the field nine DME.
Bryan:Nine DME means he was currently reading the airfield at nine miles on his distance measuring equipment.
Rock:10,000 feet, like, very high. And I remember he took the control and said, like, that was, like, Dragon six 2Dragon62 declaring emergency for engine or something like that. And I'm like I got surprised. So, like, what do you mean, like, declaring emergency? Like, what happened there?
Rock:So it took control. We start turning our right towards middle of the field. And and this is when, like, the engine and the old aircraft stopped vibrating. So we have like this like, it was vibrating so much as like you are in a spinning cycle on your on your washer. You know, the old washer where they did just bang, bang, bang.
Rock:And that's how it feels. Like, I'm trying to read a checklist and, like, everything is, like, is, like, crazy. And cannot read the checklist, go by memory, do my my thing, and switch to tower. He said, like, Dragon six two, I think Mayday Mayday Mayday. We have a T six N l.
Rock:And like T 6 N L, like you said, is the last stage of the turbine on the Hawk. But Tower didn't know that. And that that was that would be a lesson learned. Will talk after it. But so like, we have like some engine issue in the past and tower thing is just a hog coming back with a normal engine issue.
Rock:So we came back, we did like the PFL.
Bryan:A PFL stands for practiced forced landing. It is the pattern that you fly when you're having an engine related emergency and you need to make an emergency landing?
Rock:That was a very stressful situation at this point. The aircraft is vibrating. Pretty within a three sixty degree over the field. I don't remember it. Like Frank doesn't remember it.
Rock:And we established ourselves in downwind to come for, like, the the final turn. At one point, there's, like, this big log bang. That's where, like, all, like, the emergency panel, like, light up. That was the first time I saw emergency lights coming up and, like, the warning section and everything. Frank said he saw it before.
Rock:I I just don't remember, man. But at that point, I remember, alright. No. Like, in my mind, I was, like, super real. The engine just sees this, like, this huge bang, and now we're coming, coming down.
Rock:And for people who don't understand, like, when a engine, jet engine sees, it's like a speed break. So, like, the air, even it's like the inlet, like, stop going through. It's like you have like this big panel that's slowing you down. So I get rid of this on like increase like crazy. And now we're like in the final turn going to, I'm looking at the runway.
Rock:Frank said put the gear down. So like in the front, I'm just putting like the gear down. There was like a button on the Hawk. So put the button and I'm just I'm waiting because like, I know like the next oh, sorry. He asked for the flaps.
Rock:I asked if I give him like a takeoff flaps or approach flap. And I know like the next step is like the gear. So like my my finger is on the on the gear and I'm just like, I'm waiting. And he said like, we're making it. We're making it.
Rock:I look up. Yeah. Everything looks good. And I pushed the button for the gears. And at one point, like, just said eject.
Rock:And and I I'm super surprised. I'm not expecting it. And, you know, like, you always said, like, you will do eject three times. I'm pretty sure he did eject. He pulled the trigger and he was still saying eject when he was gone.
Rock:At that point, what I remember, it's like because I was like bent a little bit to the front waiting to put the gear down or the flaps. I remember like bending push back. So that was like the seat pulling the strap back. And I remember trying to grab my ejection seat, like just like go between my legs, but I didn't have time to get that. I remember the the seat moving.
Rock:So like, yeah, like, the the canopy bow was like just above your field of view. I remember the the bow going from just above my head to about in front of my head. And the Hawk is not like in Top Gun that the old canopy goes out. So the Hawk have those small MDC cords, so miniature detonation cord. It's like c four, and I will I will explode.
Rock:And so what this what happened is like the seat and the pilot just go through like this cloud of small debris and like you you get out of the aircraft. So I remember like that. And as soon as like the bow went down, I blacked out. And I remember we've seen to be, like, a very long time, like, sitting in this, like, movie theater. You know when you're waiting for the movie to start, you're all by yourself.
Rock:The lights are down so it's dark, and you're waiting for something to happen. You're waiting, like, for the projector to start shooting the movie. And I I remember being like in this room for a very long time. And I remember saying like, well, maybe that's that's what dying is. And like I'm sitting in, boom, the the shoot opens and like the shock opens, like wake me up.
Rock:I remember seeing like the jet crashing. I see like this big ball of fire going like towards me. And the next step is always like check canopy. So I don't I don't have time to check canopy, but we have like an ejection, like two years before, people like just broke their legs. So they were always talking about releasing the the servo kit like where we're sitting on.
Rock:So I'm trying to see it to to release it. So I'm really trying to go down. And the next thing I remember is like the ground is coming super quick. So I'm trying to put my hands up to just grab my stringer and I just land, boom. I landed on the side.
Rock:So I just pancake on the ground like and now like everything is silence. And like you're I'm sitting on the field. Like few seconds before I was on the plane trying to land it and all like I'm I'm in the field and I must be alive because, like, I feel pain. I'm trying to move my fingers, my toe. I said, okay, everything seems to be moving.
Rock:And I'm saying to myself, I said, will stay here. I'm on the field. Somebody will come for sure. Somebody saw the aircraft crashing, so somebody will come to get me. So I would just stay here.
Rock:I can in pain. I guess like the best thing is like not make it worse. And the next thing I remember is like the fire. So we landed like very close of the aircraft. Of course, the wind is pushing like the is blowing the fire towards us.
Rock:And I remember saying like this grass fire coming in into me. And like, again, like it's the the first first very dry day in in spring and like everything is dry. And like if you've been in Prairies and when it's dry, it's dry. And I it's just coming. And as it's going through and it seemed like to running towards me.
Rock:So I'm trying not to stand up and like I'm a little bit confused. I have a broken elbow and then I I don't know that at that point. But like my elbow is sitting like few centimeters lower than it should be. My my forearm is like free. And I'm just pushing and then the fire is over me.
Rock:I push down Wow. Able to stand up and I'm starting to to to run. And I look and I'm running. I do a couple of step and something is pulling me back. So I look back and all my parachute's on fire, the line's on fire.
Rock:And so now what I need to do is just like to release the parachute. And on the Hawk is like this big buckle, almost like World War two style that you have to push and twist. So like, normally, like, it's super easy. But now, like, I have a broken arm. I'm trying like to just push it with that, but like, I have no strength.
Rock:I don't know why I can do it. Like but at one point, like just panicking and everything, I'm able to release the like the parachute and I do another like couple of step. And now it's my surrogate that I was supposed to release that is pulling me be like this big plastic box is like pulling me back like an anchor. And at that point, like Frank came. So my instructor came through the fire.
Rock:He got like metal of bravery for that. Just come disconnect me and bolts. We we run towards the ambulance. And I'm just running, I'm in pain, I'm trying to hold my elbow like just a lot of emotion going through me. You run like you go through the fires to the smoke.
Rock:And at one point there's an ambulance coming up. So we run to the ambulance, like the sellers in the ambulance, like look at us to the start. And now they just bring us to hospital. Wow. And yeah.
Rock:And like that's and you get and now you're in pain, you're holding. Like you don't want to get like let your elbow out. You get to the hospital. And I remember they called my mom. So I'm just cutting my flight suit and everything.
Rock:At that point they were afraid that somebody will call my family saying something happened. So like they wanted me to call my mom first. So call my mom and now like it just like like the like so much emotion is coming out at that point. And I'm a bit crying on the phone. I'm talking about the fire.
Rock:Like everything is like, you know, like, it's like in the next few minutes after.
Bryan:Mhmm.
Rock:Yeah. And then they gave me, like, morphine. So first time having morphine in life, that's that's good stuff. And that was yeah. That was good.
Rock:And yeah. And after that, they sent me to to Regina. And he was born in Regina. But, yeah, that was what happened.
Bryan:Wow. That is a crazy story. Yeah. I never knew the part about the fire afterwards.
Rock:Yeah. So I can send you the video. So every time there's an emergency, there's always a video starting, like filming the approach vector for the runways. So you you can see, like, my the jet coming in, see both of us ejecting, the jet crashing. And yeah.
Rock:You can see like, it's it's very pixelated, but, like, you can see, like, all the jet crashed. You bring back the camera on us. And at one point, like you see like the fiery thing myself, like standing up, trying to just like pulling my like the shoots and everything. And you see like Frank, like going through all of that to just come get me. Wow.
Rock:So yeah, at the end the day, I got a compression fracture on my back. I broke my elbow like very very good breaking. I got a couple of disc broken too. I got burned by the the fire in my face, wrist, and like on my knee. I've got you know, when I was saying like the all the canopy, the MDC shattered the canopy in all those million of small pieces.
Rock:So for I still have some of those MDC pieces in my skin. You know, they always said that you wear like double layers. So I was wearing like a t shirt like this one. And, so everything below the sleeve is good, but like all in front, there was like all those small, like, shattered glass and like, a little bit of lead stuff. So and, like, four months after, I was picking, like, like, all those small, like, pieces was coming up to my my skin.
Rock:So I was able to pick them out. But, like, I still have some, like Next time I see you, I'll show you. Yeah. But, yeah, still have some it looks like a little bit like green freckles on my arms. But, yeah, it's it's still like glass and, like, residue from the canopy going through my stuff.
Rock:And I got lucky for the the burn. I got very bad burn on my knee when I stand up. I put my knee in the fire. I pushed down. My face, so I have like the helmet, the mask.
Rock:So I remove my mask so all my side of my face was burned. And my wrist too, where where like the, the glove and the fly suit starts, like, where the where the skin were exposed. But, I remember being out of the hospital, they have like this this lotion for like third, degree burns. And the nurse was putting a little bit in my face. And every time she would turn around, I would just like dig my end into it and just put like as much as I could.
Rock:I didn't want it to burn my face. So like I was just digging in this like cream. But, yeah. Yeah. That was good.
Rock:So they sent me that. I got surgery. They reconstruct my elbow. Still have some issue with my elbow, but, like, it's okay. Good enough for flying.
Rock:And and they, spent one week at the hospital, and they send me back, back home in Junkia for recovery. Wow. And when did
Bryan:you realize that the recovery was gonna take a long time and that it would be would be tough to recover from this, like physically anyway?
Rock:Well, it's so I have like a full body cast. Like that was not really a cast, that was like a brace. I have like a cast on my arm and everything. And so in my mind, I will take a few months and I will be back in Muzha. And I remember I wanted to remove my cast.
Rock:And so my my arm was cast at 90 degrees. And I remember putting it over my head to in the shower trying, like, to wash my head and the the elbow was not moving. So I was not able to touch the top of my head. And I was like, oh, okay. We'll need a lot of physio there.
Rock:And I remember, like, showing up in physio in Bargainville and the look of the the physiotherapist on his face. And now they started just to try to do motion and pushing and like, oh, that was so much pain. And the the order me, like, that was like a a machine. And so that was strapping my forearm, strapping my bicep and like that was a screw and like the thing was like just to open up my arm to just like, oh man, that was like so painful. And but yeah.
Rock:So I was I was doing it all the time. And just like I just really wanted to to get back flying. And even like they they gave me like a a sandbag about like I think that was like five pounds. And I was just putting the sandbag on my wrist and like just over like a table just like for the weight slowly stretch my arm. So yeah.
Rock:So that was like very long. And like the cast too, I got the cast for about six months and like a lot of x-ray, trying to just make sure like the compression fracture was okay and like work on the disc and yeah. That was a long recovery. And after that, when I was, let's say, I thought I was ready to get back in there. And now it's like, now I would like to convince the doctors that you're really like physically ready to go back flying.
Rock:And I thought that will be a walk in the park. But like now just so you see the doctors and now they need more x rays, more like you need to do tests and just make sure everything is okay. Now it's just like, oh my God, this take a long time. Like all your friends now and I know it's not the right way to think. I know now it's not the right way to think, but like all your friends are going forward and they're going on a course.
Rock:And like like they are like in a group chat or just like in the social media and now they're doing like the helicopter course or and so like all those people are moving and now you're just like, you're like in your chair back home, like just half broken. And the only thing you want to do is just like, I want to get back in that game. I don't want to be like left behind. Mhmm. Yeah.
Rock:So that was an interesting time.
Bryan:Yeah. What do you think was the hardest part of the recovery from the physical or mental side?
Rock:That was the mental side. So when I came back, I went back to, the Hawk. I joined I don't remember like the course, but like I joined a group of three guys. So now we were four guys. I remember like one is Matt Art who will become one of my best friend.
Rock:And he always tell me the story that when I crashed, he was in the toilet. And like, he was like, just like, okay, in the bathroom, you were like the big loud bang. One of their friends was on stairs, something happens. We have to get to the base, see what's happened. And he was like, he was in the bathroom.
Rock:So but yeah. So that's another story. But yeah. So I joined this group of guys and I was I was eager to go. I really wanna go back flying.
Rock:I wanted to show everybody that, like, that was just like a bump in the road and we are you know, like, I was, like, mid twenties, late twenties, and I just wanted to do it. I wanted to go fly the jet, show everybody that, like, I'm the man. I'm the one who will will just like make it that happen. And I start flying and and I was not as easy as I thought I will be. That was like, I I was afraid.
Rock:I was afraid of the aircraft, like, to be honest. And everything when I did the IF four, so the same mission I crashed from, I did two or three fly safety. I don't remember them. I was so nervous. I was like, I was afraid that that will happen again.
Rock:Like, I was certain that when I will pass 10,000 feet that the engine will quit again, that something will happen. And I remember, like, doing a departure and, like, looking at the altitude and, like, just like and the buildup of, like, emotion and stress and everything and going through, like, the altitude. And, like, when I get, like, to 10,000, like, I was I was sure that something will happen. Like, I was super sure nothing happened, but I wasn't there. We finished our mission.
Rock:I remember, like, the instructor at the end, I just had a debrief, like, I was emotionally drained. I was almost crying, red eyes. I remember, like, he didn't debrief me. Just give me a hug. And he said, like, alright, just go home and we'll talk tomorrow.
Rock:And the yeah. He gave me, like, an achieve for the flight. Like, should have been a fail. But that was just like the milestone that I needed to pass to get back and just say, okay. Not everything is behind me and we will go forward.
Rock:But this thing trigger other stuff too. So, like, of course, he talked about that with the flight commander. We've talked about that with the big two CEO, and now he's like, hey. Well, we need to to address the emotional and the psychological issue. So and I was not like very touched before.
Rock:Maybe that was my fault too. I was like, I'm ready. I can do it. I can do it. But like not knowing that was the first time that something happened like that to me.
Rock:And so, I just wanted to do it. So I didn't want to look weak. I didn't want to look like I was not able to do the job. So I guess I hide it. And it just turned back that I needed some help.
Rock:So we started with the social worker on base. And at one point, they sent me to a psychologist in Regina. And I remember like the first two sessions and she in her mind, I was like somebody who just didn't do a stop and hit a car. And like this person now is afraid of driving. And she always came back to that example.
Rock:And I was telling her, I said, like, that's not exactly what happened. But she was always coming back. So I went to fly safety, asked for the video. I said, I want to show the psychologist what happened. And I remember bringing the computer to her and said, like, I will show you what happened to me.
Rock:And like her eyes getting like super big. I said, okay, it's not like somebody didn't do a stop and hit your car. Like, it's it's a little bit bigger.
Bryan:You mentioned the psychologist. That was the psychologist from the Canadian Space Agency. Right?
Rock:Oh, no. Yeah. So so at one point, because I I was I was saying that I will I have like sign of PTSD. That's the what the original psychologist was saying. So the school sent me an Ottawa to meet the psychologist of the Canadian Space Agency.
Rock:And I think I spent, like, forty five minutes, an hour with this guy. Like, very interesting guy. Like, very knowledgeable, very talkative. Like, he was not like the I will say like the normal psychologist you see like in the TV that you lie lie down and he just listen to you. Like, that was a little bit of conversation like we have right now, like and going like to all this stuff and very comprehensive.
Rock:And I would say that was like the best forty five minutes of mental health I've ever had in my life. If we can put it like I know mental health is always a journey, but I will say this forty five minutes was amazing. And this person, like, just like, give me some tip, help me out. Just like the way through go through difficult moments. And like in forty five minutes, it's pretty impressive actually.
Rock:But it just like put me like in a good path that after that when I just like I was going to, let's say, like the social worker on base or deep psychologist in Regina, like, I would like more I knew what I wanted to do and how to do it. So like and after that, like, he helped me, like, to just, like, make everything happen. But yeah. So like this it's too bad I don't remember his name. But like he yeah.
Rock:He really helped me. Like he after like when I flew back home after this, like I was I was very confident that like that will pass and I will be able like to fly Egyptian seat again, like without like this fear that something will happen.
Bryan:That's huge. It's so important when you're going through something like that to have access to good mental health resources.
Rock:Yeah. Exactly. Oh, that's true.
Bryan:Okay. So we're going to talk quickly about SIFMAP or the Canadian Forces Member Assistance Program. This program is for regular force members, reserves who are on duty during an incident, and parents and siblings of CAF regular and reserve force members who are injured or who die while in service. The program provides direct access to telephone counseling services twenty four hours a day, seven days a week. From my own personal experience, you can call or use their online chat feature to make an appointment.
Bryan:They then set you up with a professional and I believe you get 10 free mental health sessions. For more details, I highly encourage you to Google CFMAP, that's C F M A P, and click on the canada.ca link. The beauty of this program is it's free and confidential, so no one in the CAF will know you used it, not your supervisor or chain of command, and not your doctor. I don't say that to encourage people hiding their conditions from their doctor. I personally think it's important to be open with your doctor about what you're going through, but if you're afraid to ask for help, it's a great way to dip your toes in the water confidentially.
Bryan:So how do you contact them? Listen closely everyone, Take out your phone and save this number because you or someone you love may need it one day. The number is +1 802687708. Again, that's +1 802687708. And now on with the show.
Rock:So I continue flying. I finished phase three. Took a little bit more time to get to phase to finish it. So like, of course, we have a maximum amount of hours. I failed my final low level nav test that trigger a PRB because I didn't have that much time left on my course, so not enough for doing the extra flyings and everything.
Rock:I remember going to this PRB and I was like, that was it's PRB is always very emotional because and I will do like not knowing that at that point, but I will do a lot of PRB later in my career and like
Bryan:sorry, just for the listeners, the PRB is a personal review board and it's triggered basically when certain things happen where a student's not performing like they need to on the course and it reviews basically if they're gonna keep training or not.
Rock:Yeah. Exactly. And like yeah. It's performance. It's gonna be course time because I I think that was 10% of the course time.
Rock:The Hawk back then was not that meant that much flying. So it's about, like, two or three extra flights to get a PRB. And, like, when you do a PRB, one of as the the the person doing the PRB, one of the outcome is always cease training. And, like, it's it's in the books. So it's so when you do a PRB, you do, like, this document as the person doing it, and you do you give that to the wink the commanding officer, the CEO of the unit, and it's a recommendation.
Rock:And the CEO will decide what to do with you. But, like, in it's an investigation on your progress, see how you're doing, motivation. There's, like, a lot of criteria. But like one of the outcome is always cease training. So as a student and when you see your PRB and like the first line of recommendation is cease training, you're just like, your art stop.
Rock:And I remember the guys doing the PRB back then came to me and he said like, Iraq, we know where you come from. You know what happened to you. If you wanna go like multi engine, like nobody will just like judge you and we'll just CC you on the Hawk and you will be on a multi engine course, like on the next multi engine course. And he says, think about it. And I just said, I don't need to think about it.
Rock:No. I just I'm all in. So it's that or nothing. So he had a good laugh. And so the CEO decided to give me another chance on the on that.
Rock:I passed the the retest. But like at that point, I was still like afraid of the aircraft. I was afraid not flying, but I was afraid of the ejection seat. Mhmm. So what happened is they decided to keep me as an instructor in Muzdah to like, they call it tax seasoning to give you a little bit more experience and everything.
Rock:I didn't start my QFI test right away. At that point, I was shopping for a surgeon in Saskatchewan who will give me a resurgory.
Bryan:Just one thing quickly for the listeners, QFI is qualified flight instructor.
Rock:But So I was like, I was I was shopping for a surgeon in Saskatchewan to give me a release surgery to give me more motion in my elbow. At that point, like, my elbow was, like, still very stiff and I was, like, a very nice bend still. And so I found, like, the the surgeon. I got this the surgery in Saskatoon. And after, like, few months, I was back flying.
Rock:And now I started my QFI course, qualified flight instructor course. So, when you do that, you finish, you are a CCAT. So category C, there's like three categories for a flight instructor. So you start C after six months to become a CAD B. There's like different stuff you can do in category b.
Rock:The next one is category a. Category a is like the the top category for instructor. Back then, we have a two and a one. I know, like, right now it's just like cat a. But yeah.
Rock:So you get like your A two. So I started as a C CAT like everybody, and that's where I started my instructional journey at a B two on the Harvard.
Bryan:Awesome. So just as we get ready to close this first episode, looking back on this entire first phase of your career, the highs of jet selection, the trauma of ejection, the grind of recovery, and finally finding direction again, what do you think you took away from all these experiences?
Rock:I would say like plan, never survive first contact. You always wish that like your road will be a highway right to the center or you will get to where you want to be and that will be easy. Some people that's what happened. But like sometime you have to take the scenic road and go like left and right. And that will be not exactly the journey that you were expecting, but you will still grow and become like something or somebody very interesting through the different path that life give to you.
Rock:And, even if it's not exactly where I wanted to end it, like looking back, all that brought me where I am right now. And, and that's amazing. I don't think I would change anything.
Bryan:Yeah. Yeah. The book of your life would be a very boring book if everything went smooth and nothing ever happened.
Rock:That's very true. Yeah.
Bryan:Okay, Rock, that's gonna do it for our chat today. I really, really enjoyed hearing about your early passion for flying and your fast jet training journey and of course, the incredible story of your ejection and return to the cockpit. When we return for part two, I'm really looking forward to digging into your years as an instructor, your time overseas in Saudi Arabia, and of course, your work today helping stand up the Kingfisher fleet in the Star World. So thank you so much for being here today.
Rock:My pleasure.
Bryan:And fly safe. Always. Alright. That wraps up part one of our chat with Captain Rock Veyer. Tune in next week as we conclude our discussion by talking about his time instructing in Saudi Arabia, his return to the RCAF, and his current experiences being one of the first aircrew qualified on the CC two nine five Kingfisher.
Bryan:Do you have any questions or comments about anything you've heard in this show? Would you or someone you know make a great guest, or do you have a great idea for a show? You can reach out to us at the pilotprojectpodcast@Gmail.com or on all social media at at pod pilot project. And be sure to check out that social media for lots of great videos of our RCAF and Mission Aviation aircraft. As always, we'd like to thank you for tuning in and ask for your help with the big three.
Bryan:That's like and follow us on social media, share with your friends, and follow and rate us five stars wherever you get your podcasts. That's all for now. Thanks for listening. Keep the blue side up. See you.
Bryan:Engineer, shut down all four. Shutting down all four engines.
