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Bryan: 00:58

Alright. We're ready for departure here at the pilot project podcast, the best source for stories and advice from RCAF and Mission Aviation Pilots brought to you by Sky's Magazine. I'm your host, Brian Morrison. And today, I'm joined once again by c two nine five Kingfisher pilot, Rock Veyeuw. Rock, welcome back to the show.

Bryan: 01:14

Happy to be here. Listeners can check out part one to hear about Rock's early aviation story, his flight training, and his CT one fifty five Hawk ejection and the long road back that brought him into the world of instructing. Today in part two, we'll be focusing on Rock's evolution as a qualified flight instructor or QFI, his years teaching and living overseas in Saudi Arabia, and his return to the Canadian Armed Forces flying the Kingfisher as part of Canada's newest SAR community. We mentioned at the end of part one that you needed elbow surgery. Once your elbow surgery was behind you and you began the FIS or flying instructor school course, What challenges did you face while learning to instruct?

Rock: 01:51

Well, it was like it's very interesting. It's a different like like you said, I'm or I said before, my English was not like the best. I'm still have a very strong accent, but like it wasn't the best. So now you need to teach it. So you need to talk a lot.

Rock: 02:07

And so that was a big challenge for me. The other challenge is like I was still I have like some mental issue regarding the ejection seat. I was afraid of the of the seat. Even as far as a different aircraft, I remember, like, just, like, sitting every morning in the seat, like, even, like, three times a day and, like, thinking, like, alright, that will not happen today. That will not happen today.

Rock: 02:28

Trying to just talk myself into it and just make sure that I was in the right mind state. And when I was removing, like, safety pin you put on the handle, some other seats is live. I've always like this stress, this ball of stress was sitting on me And, like, taxing to the runway, there's always, a time normally, like, you just think about what will happen and, like, get ready for the flight as a student and an instructor too. You need to do that. But that was a bit of free time that I was talking to myself.

Rock: 03:01

Alright. Today, will not happen. That will not eject. That will not happen today. And after you take off, now you get your instructor out and now you're starting to teach you how to stuff to do.

Rock: 03:13

You have to do some following to make sure there's a mistake or something like you you catch it and you can debrief it. So, like, this thought of the the seat and the fear was, like, slowly, like, going in the back of your mind and few minutes into the flight, like, I was not thinking about it. But this fear stayed with me for, like, I will say a couple of years. And even when I was an instructor, was every morning I was thinking about it. And at one point, like, you know, like a lot of water under the bridge.

Rock: 03:44

And at one point, like I was not thinking about it when I was putting the pins in. I was thinking about it when I was taxing out to at one point I was like in my bed at night thinking about what happened today. And I just realized that I didn't think about like ejecting today. And a few weeks after is I didn't think about it during the week. And you feel like this release that is not holding you back anymore, that this fear is gone.

Rock: 04:12

And that's actually like a very good feeling, like when you realize that, all right, like it's not there anymore.

Bryan: 04:19

About how long would you say that was?

Rock: 04:22

I would say like took like, I would say a good like the old process until like I realized that I didn't think about it like this week, a good two years.

Bryan: 04:31

Yeah. And you mentioned as well having the issues with the language barrier. How did you overcome that? It was just more practice, more practice and you got better with it or what? Well,

Rock: 04:44

yes and no. So yes, Because, like, you are like, when you're doing, like, a Clairvoyd one or Clairvoyd 16, like, I don't know if you remember, like, but you have, like, the boards, have the debriefing. It's very structured. So you you know, you have your key points and, like, it's always the same brief. So using, like, very simple words just to make sure, like, the there's no, misconception or just, like, misunderstanding between you and your students.

Rock: 05:11

And more you you become, like, a better instructor or you just evolve as an instructor, like, we teach to instructor is, like, to use, like, just words when you're flying. So let's say you're doing, like, a a loop. So, like, when you will breathe the loop, you will just like you'll give like the old briefing just like what the aircraft will do, what you're looking at and everything. But when you're flying it, what you wanna do is just use maybe three words and you will like split in three. So say I will talk about entry over the top and exit and one keywords for like every so entry, back pressure, top freeze, and exit.

Rock: 05:51

That was always great for me. So, like, when you fly it so, like, not a student is flying it. And if you say a back pressure, so you will remember, like, you will want to pull the four g. So when you get to the top freeze. Okay.

Rock: 06:03

Freeze means you don't touch the stick. Like, you keep it that way. And when you exit the rate was like you crush like the horizon and the airspeed to exit that to 30 knots. So when you're using like just like three words, it's difficult to just like get bad at it. So so this is all you you overcome it.

Rock: 06:21

And at one point, well, you're in Moose so everybody is English and you get some English girlfriend and just like you need to talk. So Yeah. It's get better.

Bryan: 06:31

Yeah. What did you enjoy most about instructing in Moose Jaw?

Rock: 06:36

We had a lot of hours, flying hours. So that was not like it is right now. Like, right now, we're in a big transition to the PC 21 and the Turbo Grove. When I was there, we had a lot of hours. So we could, I remember at one point, I was, like, free cross country.

Rock: 06:54

Every weekend, if you wanted to go, just take a an aircraft and just go on a road. You know, like, four ship Friday was a thing. We have, sometimes five waves per day. So I was, flying three times a day. You know, like, two international trip and, formation need or something like that.

Rock: 07:13

We I flew with the Harvard, like, from San Diego to Quebec City and just Vancouver, like, everywhere. Like, the Harvard doesn't have, like, the the glamorous of, like, the Hawk or f 18. But I guess aircraft just can do a lot of good stuff. You know, like, it's small. It's you can pull a lot of these.

Rock: 07:36

We have legs. You know, like, you can do, like, 600 nautical miles, on one tank. And the maximum, like, we have, like, a 1,200 nautical miles radius around Komar I'm sorry, around Moose Jaw that we can go anytime. So, like, that was, like, just like two ops. So that was, like, great, you know, like, small runway, we can learn it.

Rock: 08:01

Yeah. No. That was that was a very good aircraft to learn, to teach on because it's still like high performance. Like, you add g lock on the aircraft once. Like, you can roll it upside down, fly upside down, and you can do low level routes at four miles, four nescal miles a minute.

Rock: 08:24

You know, you just like you can pull like a six g if you want. And back then we didn't have like the g suit. That's a very good thing that they have g suit right now. But like we didn't have the g suit in the box. We have like some issue with like student g locking themselves.

Bryan: 08:38

Can you explain what g lock is?

Rock: 08:40

Oh, yeah. G locks is when the the blood rush out of your head. So you just lost consciousness. So like you have like tunnel visions.

Bryan: 08:48

It's like g force loss of consciousness, I think is what it stands for. Right?

Rock: 08:51

Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. I think you're totally right. So we have like some student who the fear back then was like a student with GLUELUC themselves during like solo flight.

Bryan: 09:02

During aerobatics or something?

Rock: 09:04

Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. So I just like to say that the aircraft is very powerful. It's a very fun aircraft to fly.

Rock: 09:14

Doesn't have the speed of the Hawk. But like if you do a two minutes leg in a Hawk of Harvard, it's two minutes leg. So like there's a way to make it like more challenging. And I would say like for many things, the Harvard is more challenging to fly than the Hawk because we don't have, like, the power to get out of bad situation. Know?

Rock: 09:37

So, yeah, the Hawk, if you have icing, you just, like, go max powers, burn the burn the ice. We cannot do that on the on the Harvard. But no, overall, like, that was a great aircraft. Like, we have, like, so many cross countries to Las Vegas. We did, like, a four ship over Las Vegas once for V Square.

Rock: 09:58

What's a V Square? Oh, that was his call sign. Vendley. Major Vendley.

Bryan: 10:02

Okay.

Rock: 10:03

I think he is from WestJet now. So Major Venli, when he retired, we we did like this big trip, like eight instructor down to Vegas, four ship over like the this trip, San Francisco. So, yeah, great times. And like I was saying, like, when you teach something and you are doing all those experiments with this high performance aircraft, you just get better at it. Like, 120 degrees formation flying with three g's pull back.

Rock: 10:31

No issue with it. Max performance turn, no issues. All the aerobatics. Yeah. I'm very versatile on all of that.

Rock: 10:40

So, yeah, that was a great aircraft to teach on. And yeah, I have like fond memories of it.

Bryan: 10:50

Yeah. Honestly, pretty much everybody I know who taught on the Harvard really enjoyed it. Like the work is really sounds like it was very hard, like long days, you know, it had its challenges. But in terms of the aircraft and the flying, it it sounds like it was fantastic.

Rock: 11:07

It's long days. So like you you start early in the morning, med brief. There's always a way to make it like easier. But like if you want to be a good instructor and you want your student to learn and to get what their choice and be better pilot. Because at the end of the day, all those people, I stay like in Muzha for a long time.

Rock: 11:24

Like, I meet them all the time, all the instructors. And we'll talk about that later. But like all the instructors of students, like, I meet some people that I I thought with or I thought to everywhere you go. So like the air force is a very small community. And if you you want them to be good because you will work with them.

Rock: 11:45

It's not like I'm in a small like company and I'm teaching private license and I will never see this person again. You would just turn a corner in a building at one point and boom, that's the guy that you flew over Las Vegas in the fourth ship and like all the memories come back. And it's the way it is. Like, so if you wanna be a very good instructor, so you show up in the morning, you study like the the last trip of the students of what they did wrong, what they did good, or you can improve. You can go talk to the the other instructors.

Rock: 12:22

And when, like, the fight is over, you wanna have like, and a good briefing. You wanna have a good briefing that the people will learn from it. You fly it. And when you debrief, you wanna get bring some good points. And when you ride the karts, you don't wanna be, like, quick on the karts neither.

Rock: 12:37

You wanna have some root cause of what happens and what you think you should the next instructor should do to fix it to make him better. So it takes time. And yeah, it just takes time.

Bryan: 12:50

At Moose Jaw, you worked in B Flight in Ops and eventually earned instructional category as you mentioned in the previous episode. Can you tell us what you learned from these roles?

Rock: 13:00

So when you start like out of the fine sweater school, so you're a CCAT. So you it's more like you have the license to kill at that point. So you just go, you learn, you get your first students. Normally, you will get a strong student. So you will you will learn, like, the tools that you learn in FIS.

Rock: 13:21

You will apply them. You will try to get a good instructor. After six months, you'll get the checkride and you will be a BCAT. BCAT is like really like the work or the working class of the instructor. Most of the instructors should be BCAT BCAT.

Rock: 13:34

And so now you will get like a a bit more like challenging students. People have some issues or and your work is to fix them. And more you work in a BCAT, so at one point you will work with an instructor, you will work with a CCAT. And I will just like at the end bring you to your ACAT category is when you will be able to teach brand new people to be instructor. And so, like, there's a lot of responsibility of you.

Rock: 14:03

You're teaching the next generation of instructor. You will teach to students who have, like, that big difficulty. Like, everybody try and, like, you cannot, like, fix them. And sometime you have the last resort. And, like, if you cannot fix them, well, most likely, this will be a cease training, and they will just have to change trade.

Rock: 14:24

So this is this big responsibility. It was very interesting. You have, like, all those cases, but that's a big responsibility, and and it's very enjoyable. It's very good. And this is where, like, you you learn new techniques, you teach those techniques.

Rock: 14:44

That will open the A two, the A category, like open up a lot of international doors that like we'll talk a little bit later. But like this category is very is recognized internationally.

Bryan: 14:57

Wow. So you later ended up working in Wing standards. How did that change your perspective on safety, consistency and quality of instruction?

Rock: 15:06

So I was like part of the wing standard cell. That was very interesting because now you have like an overview of what's going on. And one of my main job at this point, it was when Bombardier transferred a contract to CEE. So like I was, I was part of it because now it's more like, it's not as much as instructing, but it's more about like the stats and like, see if we, like if the division quota met, how how can we fix it and everything. So now you go more from a very tactical view that you just like you're, an instructor on the line and all like that, bring your scope up.

Rock: 15:48

So now you have, like, a more interesting global view of the instruction and not, like, what's happening in Portage is bringing in and, like, yeah, the course delays and, like, the the fleet, how to fix the issue and everything. So it's I guess it's a it's a normal progression, like, for an officer in the forces that you go from very tactical to a little bit, like, more overview. And I really enjoy it. Like, it's very, you know, it's you know, when you're in the line, like you have some frustration sometimes and you don't understand why you have been doing that thing that way and everything. And when you get that to a position like that and you're sitting in those meeting and you have like all the CEO, Wing Commander is there and you have like the Bombardier and CE people and everything.

Rock: 16:33

And you're just like talking about the contract, the planes and everything and their challenges. It's, so now you you understand why things works that way. So it's, and as a captain, that's that's good to bring back those concern and those like discussion back and say, oh, we're doing this that way because of those challenges. And like we just they're working it out. So, yeah, I really enjoyed it.

Rock: 16:58

That was fun.

Bryan: 16:58

Awesome. Yeah. Did you find that working in that capacity helped you later in your career at all?

Rock: 17:04

Yes. Because I realized that I like it.

Bryan: 17:10

Just for the listeners, if you do hear any background noise on Rock's side, that's because Rock is taking the time today while he's on his Christmas vacation with his family to record today. So you might hear his family a little in the background, but we're just grateful that he's taking this time today while he's supposed to be on vacation. So so yeah, we mentioned or at least you mentioned when we spoke prior to the interview that you were always supposed to go back to Jets in six months, but the timeline kept slipping. When did you realize that dream was drifting out of reach?

Rock: 17:41

So the chain of command was always like saying like, I will have the chance to go the opportunity to go on jet like in six months and everything. So there was always like push down the line. But there was a good reason for that that happened. We have like some aug issues, maintenance issues. And after that, like the Royal Air Force canceled the Arier program overnight.

Rock: 18:03

So we got like an influx of World Air Force pilot in Muzha. Got six of them. We're already like jet pilots, like fighter pilots who get like fast track. So all those people went in front of me. And we have, like I said, like Issue and the Hawk.

Rock: 18:19

And you have all those students too who are just like behind you and pushing. So like, it's not like for sure you get like a spot on the next course. Like, it's like, it's the what the Air Force need and how many like students are finishing the Hawk and everything. So that was always push. And at one point, the the CEO said like, well, Rocky, you've been here for a very long time.

Rock: 18:44

It's time for for you, like, to choose to move on. And like I said, I was very frustrated about that. I understand the decision. Like for a common RCF point of view, like that's the right thing to do. As a personal point of view, I was not very happy with it.

Rock: 19:03

So this is where like we sat down and me and my wife and we said like, what's next? So what do you wanna do? Where you wanna go? I like a son at that point. Like Emrek was just a newborn and we're looking for an opportunity.

Rock: 19:23

So I didn't wanna go helicopters. I was thinking I got multi engine. And at one point something happened. So there's this company, British Aerospace, who comes in Moose Jaw from every couple of years, sometime every year. They just run like a hall in Moose Jaw and said it's all just like people talk about it and say, if you want to just come, just come.

Rock: 19:49

We'll talk about like opportunity in The Middle East and with our company and everything. And, you know, like no string attached, you just come. So I went, that was a briefing. My wife was there and they talk about how to live over there, how he works, the job. And he is always like an ex Muja instructor there and just telling about his experience over there.

Rock: 20:13

And most likely his wife would be there and showing her point of view and everything. And at the end you get like a card and they said like, if you're you're happy, if you wanna learn more, just like call that number, you know. And I called the number. And so I did like the paperwork and everything. And just they offered me a job.

Rock: 20:37

And I was like, wow, okay, maybe let's try it. And that was in Middle East. I was in Saudi Arabia. I was a little bit nervous about it. My wife always loved traveling and new experience.

Rock: 20:51

So she wanted to go. So that was not even her. That was me at that point. And one of my other friend, Paul Dassie, was like few months behind me on the process. So he was actually ahead of me.

Rock: 21:05

So he was already going. And I said, let's give a go and see see how it will be.

Bryan: 21:12

What factors influenced your decision to actually take that leap and move your family overseas?

Rock: 21:18

Well, that was honestly, like at that point, I was more a little bit of frustration regarding like the Air Force of like Mooja. I spent almost like ten years there as the first day as a student to my last day as an instructor. And, you know, like you show up and you know, there's like this big expectation that, you will do something like I was saying, like, I was hoping for my street to be straight to my dream and everything. And I was a lot of stuff happened when I was there. And, so when they say like, I will not go jet and, I need like to choose a new path is almost like you were scrambling.

Rock: 22:01

And you know, and what you do now is just like, well, what's important? So that was like, what's important for me at that point was my family. Like, we love my son. I will be there. I wanted to be there for him and everything.

Rock: 22:14

And there's always like like, I don't wanna deploy all the time anymore. And that's funny saying that, I wanna say I will go in The Middle East. But like, it's it's almost like a it's a family experience at that point. So it's not just me going, it's Diana, my wife too. And I'll bring some other issues later, but that's where we went for.

Rock: 22:38

And so I did like, told my chain of command that that's the direction I wanted to go through. They said like, well, you need to be posted out. Like, for like the posting, we cannot like keep you here. So where do you wanna go? I say anything West except 407.

Rock: 22:54

So they post me 407. And it just always works. So I show up in 407 fully expecting my new squadron to know about my plan and everything. But of course, nobody talks to each other. And so at that point, my wife was pregnant with number two.

Rock: 23:16

And I remember showing up one morning with like my paperwork for parental leave. I said, I will take six months parental leave and this is my six months notice. And the CEO was GP Gagnon, Le Fanon Conner, GP Gagnon. And like the face he gave me, like I'd say parental leave is, oh, congrats for the kids. I'm leaving in six months and his face like change.

Rock: 23:40

And this name will be interesting. We'll come back a little bit later in the story. But so yeah. So I left September 2. Yeah.

Rock: 23:51

I think that was September, early September two thousand seven. I was gone for for 2008, I will say. Oh, in that in that area. And so I went to London. I did, like, the indoctrination course.

Rock: 24:08

That was very interesting. They flew me back in Canada waiting for my visa, took a little bit of time to get a visa. But at one point I was shipped with my luggage right to Riyadh. And I was very nervous. So like you that was my first time in The Middle East.

Rock: 24:27

I went to Egypt before, but I don't think that's that kind of Middle East. Norway is really like the real, real Middle Middle East, the one you see in the TVs and everything. And you so I show up and you the first person I met over there was a South African great guy. And he just like grabbed me on. That was my first contact with like the company.

Rock: 24:49

And we just like start talking about who is in Saudi right now and who I know. And I'm like, that's super weird. Like a South African asking me who I know and everything. And at one point I realized that we know a lot of people, like common people. I realized that there will be a lot of Canadian on the compound, on the British compound that I know.

Rock: 25:09

So I show up, he dropped me in my room and he said, hey, by the way, there's a Canadian party tonight at Mike Donning house. I was just like, oh, I know that name. I know that name. He was an instructor. Was a standard when I was an instructor.

Rock: 25:27

So I just that was a small compound. Like, that was one square kilometers. And so I walked there and, oh my god, I just like show up and there's like so many people I know. Like, it's like all this stress I've been like by yourself in The Middle East and like foreign countries that you don't speak the language and everything. Everything lifts right away because you have like so many people, you know.

Rock: 25:48

And so now you realize like one of my old boss was there and after Canadian, I already flown with them when I was in Moose Jaw. And it's like, alright, it's like RCEF reunion in middle of the desert. And now we just like start talking and yeah. Super good. And the first thing I know, I'm I'm paired with a British guy, Rich Taylor.

Rock: 26:15

And, he was a tornado pilot went to Iraq, I think and everything, like great story guy. And like we prepare for the PC 21 course and we just start chatting and he realized that I was in And Rich said, hey, I was in Muzdah. And for like the other hog training. So I was start talking each other. And at one point, Rich said like, that was one night.

Rock: 26:42

Like all the British people like one get together for like a British night. They went out to the kitchen and they, they asked the people to do fish and chips. And like, so they organized all the fish and chip nights that was supposed to be like a British nights with like British, beers and everything else. And the cook was from Saskatchewan. So when the food showed up, that was fish, fried fish, but that was not french fries.

Rock: 27:12

That was like chips, like you said, like potato chips.

Bryan: 27:15

Like potato chips?

Rock: 27:17

Yeah. Exactly. And and I look at Rish. I said, I was there for that night. I remember that.

Rock: 27:23

It was, like, super weird. And Rish said, I know. That was, like, super weird. And we just start laughing. And at one point we connect right away where we were in Muzha at the same time.

Rock: 27:32

And now like, a lot of stuff happened and we have like the same memory about it. Like, so that was that was good. And you realize that you're a middle of the desert on the other side of the world and you met somebody that you think you never met before, but like you were at the same place doing the same thing that was flying aircraft like in Saskatchewan. It's that was crazy. That was good.

Rock: 27:55

Wow. Yeah. And like the last time the last news I have from Rich, now he left Saudi and he is an Australian. So he's flying for the Australian Air Force. Oh, wow.

Bryan: 28:05

Yeah. What did you find were the biggest differences between instructing in the RCAF and instructing on the PC 21 in Saudi?

Rock: 28:13

Well, the aircraft is amazing. I'm super glad the RCAF is buying it. It is the best mix of a Hawk and a Harbord. Oh, wow. It's a great aircraft.

Rock: 28:26

Like it's super good to teach on it. It's very powerful. Like everything can be cynical in it. Like I was teaching air to air with the radar. There's no radar in the aircraft, but like because each aircraft talk to each other, we can have a synthetic radar so you can see what the other aircraft does or do.

Rock: 28:45

And if they do traffic and flare, you will sit on the radar. If you simulate like a missile launch, the other aircraft will know will get like the beep beep that you will get like on a real fighter jet. We're doing low level flight and we're dropping a bomb and you can like like it's a fake bomb, it's all computer. But like in the debrief, you can, bring up the map and see where the bomb touched the ground, like the simulated bomb. Like for training is amazing.

Rock: 29:12

Like, like all the systems, I'm not sure what Canada bought, but like money was not an issue in Saudi, so they bought everything. So like, super easy to debrief. You just have bring the park, you download the flight, and you're like like seconds by seconds flight. You can like even like you do you teach, let's say, a loop, something very simple, and there's a wing drop in the loop. So you can go and like on the the recording, you can go seconds by second.

Rock: 29:40

You can see where the drop happened, and you can see what was the input of the pilot at that moment. So you can tell him, so like, you see at that moment, this is why you have a wing drop. It's because you have a little bit of, like, left a laundrom. Wow. It's crazy.

Rock: 29:54

That was, so that was for that, that was amazing. The style of teaching over there is very different than us. It's very calm. The way they do thing is very different too. You will you need to tell a story.

Rock: 30:13

So when you, you cannot. That's in Canada, like, again, I always use the the loop example because it's the easiest one. Your first loop, you're doing, like, fantastic loop. That was, like, as good as I can do. I give you a level four.

Rock: 30:27

Level four is like it's a minor mistake self correct. So but like, because it's your first time you're doing it, your minimum level is level two. And level two is like make mistake and the instructor have to give you some verbal tip. So in Canada, we'll put you a level four. That was great.

Rock: 30:47

And let's say the next day you have a bad day, and I I need to give you some verbal cues to make you look okay. So at the end, you get the level two, and that's the minimum level that you will get. And that's okay. You just keep going. Like, that's that's normal.

Rock: 31:02

Like, over there, you cannot do that. Over there, even if it has, like, the best loop ever, you always get the minimum grade. If he gets a higher grade, let's say I give you a level four, but the next day he has a bad day and I have to give him a level two, like, I need to explain why the students regressed. And like, oh, the student has a bad day. Like, it's not a good reason.

Rock: 31:27

So like a lot of stuff we're doing over there was like to cover, you know, we're teaching it, but like we're writing the card just to make sure that the story is straight. Like if you have to fail somebody for a flight, you will not fail him on the first flight. You will write a story. So you will make him plateau. And even if you know, day like one, he will not pass.

Rock: 31:50

You cannot, like, fail in there. So you will make him plateau. Like, you will see the grade will increase. He's not able to reach the grade. And after, like, the fourth flight, you will show, like, a regression who's maybe, like, his real level.

Rock: 32:03

And after that, like a Saudi instructor, you will show and say like, this is what happened. I teach him that. He has a plateau and now he's regressing. He will fly with the Saudi instructor and he will say like, you're totally right. And the the student will be out of the course.

Rock: 32:16

And like they don't over there, like if they would like to write off a course, they will write off a course. It's very interesting. Like it's you know, like in Mooja, we're trying to keep students. We're trying to really grow them and be better pilots and everything. Over there, it just like, if you don't fit, you don't fit.

Rock: 32:37

You know, it just like it just keep, what's the one way ball to just like keep the pace. And the other thing too is like in Mujah, like, it's your course. You're you're there to fly. Over there, it's like the RMC. And the second thing is to fly.

Rock: 32:52

So they will have, like like, they will have, like, night drill, fire drills, and they will just, like like, stuff through the night. And in the morning, he would have to show up ready for flying, but he didn't have time to to study and everything. So you will show up like eight in the morning, you have your students and you see in his face that he didn't sleep that night. For sure, you know, didn't open his book. He doesn't know his number, you know?

Rock: 33:19

And so one is very bad. So what will happen is I will just tell him, say like, just go in MR and ground yourself, say like you're sick or something. Because again, if they jump in the aircraft, they cannot risk regress. They cannot have a bad day. And I have actually a very funny story about that.

Rock: 33:37

One of my student was I was a little bit like smarter than the others. And over there, like the RMC have a jail. So the it's a night jail. If, if you do something prohibited like smoking or something like that, you go in jail like overnight. And, this student was always trying to get caught smoking.

Rock: 33:54

So he was able to go in the jail at night. But if you're in a jail, you're a jail. So he was reading his book. He was going to jail. And as I was studying, he said like, that was the best place to study.

Rock: 34:06

It's calm. You cannot talk and there's no like drills and everything. You just have to study. So it was like very, very funny.

Bryan: 34:16

That is funny. That's a creative solution for sure.

Rock: 34:20

Yeah. I'm sure it will be general later.

Bryan: 34:23

Yeah. What can you share about how the country itself changed during your years there?

Rock: 34:29

So when I show up there, like even like a simple restaurant visit will all their son will be split in two. So you will have one side for family, one side for a single man, woman who is not driving. I show up, we have, I think, one movie theater in Riyadh. And by the time we left, like all of those restriction, all day was like a wind of change over Saudi. And that was very interesting to see.

Rock: 34:57

Like the woman were able to, to drive. We have like so many movie theaters and that was like beautiful, beautiful movie theaters. Best pork on I ever had was over there. Like all the restaurant was like here, you know, like so quite interesting. And like the malls and everything, it's yeah, that was like a big win of change, like big changes, big changes over there.

Rock: 35:22

Wow.

Bryan: 35:22

Do you know what was driving that?

Rock: 35:24

Oh, that was MBS was the one in charge of this part. So whatever we say about him internationally over there is doing good people, good stuff for his people. So but yeah. And Saudi people really love them. You know, like over there you it's a little bit like a mess.

Rock: 35:44

Like you don't talk about girls, about religion, you don't talk about money, this kind of stuff. And over there, you don't talk about like the king if you don't like him. But generally, like all the young people really like what MBS is doing to their country. Like, they open up like the normal like normal common people, like, really love him because they have more access to what we'll call a normal life here. Okay.

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Bryan: 36:44

How did living overseas affect your family and let's say like the good, the challenging and what was unexpected?

Rock: 36:52

Let's start with the good. So my wife really, really enjoy it on the compound that that was was British rules. So, like we just dress in shorts and everything. So that was like, that was great. Like we had like pools everywhere.

Rock: 37:11

Like the school for the kids were like 100 meters from my house. We have like, like the import, like food from everywhere in the world. If you like fish, that's amazing. Like they have like so many kinds of fish and meat and, they just import the best. So that was super, super interesting and for cheap too.

Rock: 37:32

So that was, that was good. Traveling was amazing. Saudi is one flight away from Europe, one flight away from, Asia. So we have like a very, a lot of good travel, when we're over there. The people over there are very nice too.

Rock: 37:51

Like I never felt treated or afraid to be out over there. Like they really love kids. My kids, like, sometimes, like, we are let's say, like, in we travel to Japan and at one point, my kids forgot one of his toy in his stroller and, like, he rung in the restaurant to get his toy. And, like, the, like, the cook, like, got like super mad and yell at my kid in the Japanese restaurant in Japan. But like in Saudi, like whatever they do, like ghosts, like everybody was happy with them and like mashallah and touch their their head and everything.

Rock: 38:28

My daughter got lost in a shopping mall and like, yeah, everybody help us to find her. And that was good. Like, we never felt like something bad will happen to her. Driving is crazy. I will say like driving is the worst thing over there.

Rock: 38:46

It's so dangerous. But, no. So, so I will say like, that's the that's a good all the the friends we made from like Scotland, UK, South Africa, Australia. It's a, it's nice. It's nice to have that.

Rock: 39:06

Let's say like the more challenging, for me is like, it's more like to adapt to all, like what the Saudi expect from you. It's yeah. The destruction part is a little it's it's much different. So you really need to take care about how you act and everything. You don't go there as a missionary.

Rock: 39:30

You don't wanna change them. So like when you're over there, like you just you need to you're a guest in their countries. So they expect you to act as a guest. So there's like a lot of interesting story of people who just like did something and the next day they were on a plane, you know, because like they they decided they didn't like them. And they're nice nice nice and you do something and the next day you are on a plane and it's over.

Rock: 40:01

You know, like so and you don't choose like people were laughing, you don't choose your seat neither. Like you just, you're gone. Wow. You know, and somebody will send you your belongings letter. So many stories of a bit like that.

Rock: 40:16

So it's challenging for that, you know, like it's there's always a stress that you don't know what will happen for next week. Some people are better at it than others. I know like some people were very stressed about that. My wife and I were more about, you know, like we have like some financial goals. So like we were like aiming for that.

Rock: 40:40

And after that, we'll change our way. But like that was our goal. So that's what we stay our eyes on. So and for me, I knew that was not for the rest of my life. That was just for a period of time.

Rock: 40:54

So that's better too. And the last one was the really bad well, you're still in The Middle East. So they were at war with Yemen. And I remember once they had Patriot missile batteries everywhere around Riyadh. And one time I was in the barbecue and the Patriot missile launch and you look up and you're like, oh, maybe it will start raining rain soon.

Rock: 41:20

So just gather the kids, go inside the house. And now you realize like, you know, that that's not something that will happen in Canada. You know, it's not the way we see things. And, you know, after that, you will get like an alert on your phone and the missile crash, like, not that far from your house. And you see, like, people, like, taking picture of it and everything.

Rock: 41:43

And you're like, you know what? Like, I don't think I want my kids to think that's normal. So yeah. So at one point you decide that's enough and it's time to go home.

Bryan: 41:59

That's the reason you decided to come back to Canada?

Rock: 42:02

Well, there was like other factors and everything. At that point, I was teaching at the at the academy over there. I was not flying as much. And that was Emmerich, my son was, going in age for school. I wanted him to be in the French school.

Rock: 42:21

I know too, she was getting at the, the right age for that. I wanted to go in the airlines. So at that point, like I have enough hours, my ATPL was done and I was ready to go in the airlines. And, yeah, and that's what happened. Like, you know, I was working for the company for almost three years at that point.

Rock: 42:43

So that's almost like a posting cycle. And yeah, that was time to try something else.

Bryan: 42:49

So you talked about why you came back to Canada. You mentioned that you wanted to go in the airline. So what ended up motivating you to return to the CAF in 2020?

Rock: 42:59

So 2020, what happened in 2020? Hold on.

Bryan: 43:03

Yes. Maybe maybe I should have thought a little harder about that.

Rock: 43:09

Yeah, COVID happened. And by the way, COVID in Saudi was nothing like COVID here. You know, here, like people are just complaining about masks. In Saudi, we have tanks at every crossroad. And to go to the next block, you need like a paper from like an authority to say like, you have a good reason to leave.

Rock: 43:30

So like they really split the city and you shall stay in your block. I So remember at one point I needed to go to the hospital and I left in the morning and I have like this letter in Arabic and I get to do a checkpoint and it was like an M one and M one A one Abram there.

Bryan: 43:49

And for the listeners, just to emphasize the point Rock is making here, An M one A one Abrams is a main battle tank.

Rock: 43:56

With all those guards with like the AK 47 and like I show my show their letter in Arabic. They don't speak English. I'm giving them my best smile and like the I don't know what will happen. Will they take like my letter or no? And the guy is like, let me through.

Rock: 44:12

And I was like, oh, that's very interesting. Well, yeah. So I had like an interview with WestJet. I was waiting for an interview for Air Canada at that point. I got a nice email saying that it was canceled.

Rock: 44:25

So and I was like on the way back to Canada, I wanted to go back to Canada. So I was thinking, what what about going back in the CAF as a reservist and just go in the holding pattern like so many reservists do before going back in the airlines? So I went through the process and to get back in the reserve. And we moved back to Comox where I was before. The reserve flight in Comox is exceptional, I will say.

Rock: 44:58

Like, yeah, those people are like so helpful, super good, super eager to help you and hire you and fill up position. Like I show up. And and yeah. Like, I was back in just just like that. I was back in the CAF as a reservist.

Bryan: 45:17

And then when you went Reg Forest, you were the executive assistant to the nineteen wing commander. Right?

Rock: 45:22

Yeah. So what happened is I was on reservist. I was a wing operation center in Comox on nineteen wings with nineteen OSS, so the operational support squadron. And we and I I won again in parental leave as I always do. And the EA for the wing commander was Sarah Dalla at that point, who was a she she was a snowbird.

Rock: 45:49

She was a good friend of mine. She was an instructor with me. And then you mentioned that she was a coursemate of you in a flight.

Bryan: 45:55

Yeah. Just one course behind me, but we were both in Apache flight at the same time.

Rock: 46:00

You know those Apache people. But yeah. So so I was in parental leave. And when I show up back from Saudi and I show up in nineteen nineteen wing, It's always like a new place of work. Who the hell do I know here and everything.

Rock: 46:18

And I remember first time I show up at a walk is this big airlock that you just open the first door, you enter, close the door behind you, change of pressure, and you open the door and you're like, oh my god, that's very impressive. And now I step in this wing operation center and the first person that I met, it's like Aeng Shutei Bisping, who's a German who switched Canadian, who were instructed together and Moose Jaw. And it's just like, oh my God, I know people here too. And like, you just go around the office and I already know half of those people. And like right away, like you catch up and you feel super happy, you know people.

Rock: 46:55

And yeah, it's make like the transition so easy. And the big thing we have in Comox is the Search and Rescue Center in Canada. So Ladias four forty two is there. And I realized that I have a lot of people in the SAAR community. And one of them is Matt Hart.

Rock: 47:13

As I mentioned, he wasn't wearing the same Hawk course. Okay. And at that point, Matt was the pilot lead for the the Buffalo. And we're like in a big transition to go from the the Buffalo to the Kingfisher. A very interesting time to be in SAR.

Rock: 47:28

And, Matt was like, Rock, you need to come SAR. And, I was like, alright. How can I be SAR? And like so, like, Matt is putting all this plan together. You need to do that, that, that.

Rock: 47:39

Just make sure you do good work and trying to volunteer for stuff so people understand your name. And I was like, okay, I will follow your plan, Matt. But at that point, I went to Burn to leave, so I'm gone. And one day I got the phone call and I was mad. He said like, hey, Rock.

Rock: 47:57

The wing the wing commander EA is a sorrow that I and she's pregnant, and they are looking for replacement for her. And the wing commander is like the sorrow sorrow cake. So it's the one who is just like talk about sar with the general. So be the wind commander. So like the wind commander is really like is the most senior sar people.

Rock: 48:18

So they have like they can do whatever they want almost. And so I said, that's a great idea. I called my boss. I was still in parental leave. I said, I want to be the wing EA.

Rock: 48:29

And they said, yeah, we'll put your names up. Long story short, I got the job and, I became, like, the wing commander EA at nineteen Wings. My first, wing commander was Rhonda Stevens, who was acting wing commander, acting colonel. Great person. Like, I learned so much from her, and she was SAR.

Rock: 48:52

So I think like in the first two weeks I was there, we're like, just like walking to, to an event or something. And she asked me what I wanted to do. And I said, wanna be SAR. Because at that point, I was still long range patrol on my docks. So I asked her, I just, I wanna be SAR.

Rock: 49:09

And just like that, the next day I was now on the the SAR payroll. Oh, wow. And, that was like the easiest change of, I didn't have to write any memo or stuff like that. I just, she just made it happen for me. And that's that's what happened.

Rock: 49:25

And at that point, I was I was sorry. Like, then my next one commenter was GP Gagnon or as the guys I gave, like, the my six months notice earlier. So so I remember, like, sitting at my office and I see, like, the new wing commander walking in, and that's GP Gagnon. And I remember him because I gave him the the paper and he looks at me and, like, you see like the the lights. I mean, he say, oh, I know you.

Rock: 49:51

You know? And I'm like, oh my god. So I but he is he is like it's a great guy. Amazing when commander. I was I learned again a lot different style of leadership, so that was very interesting to see.

Rock: 50:06

At one point, he sat me down at the mess, and he said, like, Rock, if you wanna go long range patrol, I can have you on OTU, like, in the next next month. And I said, no. I wanna say so. So he's like, okay. Sounds very good.

Rock: 50:17

So he he set me up for the the ERK OTU. So one of the last legacy ERK OTU. And I was, like, very happy about it. And but the the story goes before we get to the Kingfisher. At one point, Lefton Connell Jean Leroux, who was April CEO, show up just like his head in my in my office.

Rock: 50:42

And he said like, Rock, I thought you wanted to go Kingfisher. And I said, I didn't know it was an option. He said, okay. You are Kingfisher. And that's all.

Rock: 50:50

I just joined the Kingfisher program. Wow. It's, just like, Lieutenant Colonel Rue. And the thing is, at that point, they were trying like to staff up the first course, so AICT with eight people. What's AICT?

Rock: 51:03

That was the Air Crew Initial Cavalry Training. So that was the first Canadian course. And they they were trying to fill it up with eight, aircraft commander, like on the buff and Hercules. But the thing is, like, Kingfisher at this point didn't have a lot of good reputation and everything. The earth needed this AC.

Rock: 51:22

So they have like issue finding, filling up those two last spot. So the first one to be selected for that was Steve Arty, who was like a f o three. So that's an acting AC level on the Hercules who show up on the Kingfisher. And after that, I took the last spot of the course. And I think that's the best thing that ever happened to me.

Bryan: 51:46

Awesome. What did you think of the Kingfisher when you got to finally fly it?

Rock: 51:51

So when I was in aviation college, like, long time ago, they were always talking about, like, like the next aircraft, like, like, the the screen, the odds and everything, like the next technology and everything. And I never had the opportunity to really fly a last brand new generation aircraft. So the first time like they sat us in the SIM and, now like you just like all touch screen. That's a multi engine aircraft, but we have like two odds that like, I flew on a Hawk in the PC 21 when it's on. I flew a lot of odd times.

Rock: 52:26

So that was like super nice for me to see an odd in this aircraft.

Bryan: 52:31

Just for listeners, a HUD is a heads up display and it's basically like a little window you look through that gives you all the data you need to keep flying without looking down at your instruments.

Rock: 52:40

Yeah. And actually all in capital letters, like everything in it. And we can talk about it like, well, this odd bring us a lot of information and different functions. But yeah. So yeah, it's like for the first time in my life, I was like sitting in an aircraft that is up to its time.

Rock: 52:57

And I was like so happy. Like it was like a kid in a candy store.

Bryan: 53:03

Yeah. Yeah. And you described this as kind of exciting but chaotic times with a lot of new checklists and standard maneuver manual or SMM changes, lots of flight permits. How did the crews adapt to that?

Rock: 53:16

Well, it's you're right. So it's a very challenging time. It's a new fleet. So like nobody in the world fly this aircraft the way we fly it, where we fly it. So like, I know, like in another interview, we're talking with like the the CEO, Sandan Fox, and he was talking about like the all the Change Canada requests on the aircraft and everything.

Rock: 53:36

So all that, of course, is new. And so a lot of we're learning the aircraft. So that's what's happening. So we're learning every day. We're learning something new in the aircraft.

Rock: 53:48

The community right now is very small. The pilots community and the SO Taco is very small. So every time, like, something new showed up, like, it's a change of pubs, it's gonna be very challenging for, like, people, let's say, coming from the ERK, where the ERK had been like, all the POVs had been set in stone for so

Bryan: 54:08

long. Mhmm.

Rock: 54:08

This aircraft have been flying from the nineteen fifties, you know, like, all contribution all around the world, everywhere. So when you come like to a new aircraft with new pubs who maybe like just flew in Europe and now like flying Canada in our icing in our configuration. So it's new. So we need like to just adapt, change the way we do it. Like, we cannot do it the same way as the HURG did it because we don't have the power.

Rock: 54:35

We cannot do it the same way as the buff did it because we have sensor now that the buff don't. So the old Kingfisher SMM thing came together at first as a mix between the Urk and the Buffalo for the Kingfisher. But, of course, it's not what the Kingfisher can do. Like, it's it's a it's a very bad marriage. So, like, more we're learning about the aircraft.

Rock: 55:01

So we're changing the SMM. We adapting the the checklist. You know, at one point, like, I changed checklist, like, three times because like the reorder, like steps and everything to make it like more real, more like just the way we do it in the aircraft. And they have like a standard conference couple of weeks ago and now they're changing other stuff. And that's all good.

Rock: 55:24

Like, it's just like the it's evolving in the right direction. It's evolving towards a platform who will be more operational. And, like, this is the first winter too we're flying. So we're learning a lot about de icing, what the aircraft can do. Or we can plan to be a little bit better if we lose engine, all this good stuff.

Rock: 55:46

So it's a learning curve. It's very exciting to be in that. It's the first time I'm like in the front end that we're writing documents, helping like the AC standards. Everybody needs our input to change stuff. And it's very exciting.

Rock: 56:06

Like, for me, it's very exciting. Like, I feel like I'm prepping the aircraft and for the future to be like the best SAR platform we can have in Canada, fixed wing.

Bryan: 56:19

Yeah. I think you mentioned as well before the interview that the Cormorant crews were having to kind of relearn fixed wing integration with the searching out west.

Rock: 56:29

Yeah. Exactly. So when we lost the buff few years ago, like we have like the the Hercules here in Comox. But, like, we have some serviceability issues. Sometime the Hercules had to fly from Winnipeg to support the CORM.

Rock: 56:43

So at one point, like, the the CORM was done and the the Herc was not even on scene. So, yes, the Kormorant crew right now here needs to relearn how to use the Kingfisher, how to be a team. I will say, like, I think it's the best way to say it, how to be a good team. And we're getting there. Like last week, like the comm all get together talking about their missions.

Rock: 57:07

And I was there. I was like the awkward looking fisher guys. And at one point we they start asking question about the flares, times, what equipment we have in and everything. So more and more, we're learning how to play together.

Bryan: 57:22

Mhmm.

Rock: 57:23

And that's good. And even at GRCC Victoria was not tasking the the Kingfisher for some missions. And we're like, hey, we're here. We're personal. It's time to just like less of play together so we can work better together.

Rock: 57:36

And now we're planning some training too. So last week I was in like an upgrade mission from some Sartex, and we did like some work close of Kamloops, and the command was part of it. So we we show up there like a real mission. Like, found, like, Kesseler was on the ground, like, you're mimicking aircraft crash. And so we did like all, like, the fixed wing stuff.

Rock: 57:59

We dropped the Sartex. We dropped some equipments for them and everything. And at one point, the comer and showed up and, like, picked them up with, the the fake castle tee and everything. And and that's the way a normal mission should should work. Kingfisher first.

Rock: 58:15

Kingfisher find the target, drop the Sartex, the equipment, the secure the the site, take care of the of the people on the ground, and the Chrome show up, pick them up, and bring them to hospital or maybe to another airfield where like the Kingfisher can medevac there to Vancouver or Victoria.

Bryan: 58:33

What do you personally love about flying the Kingfisher?

Rock: 58:38

I can fly it like a Harvard. That's I think that's the way I like it the most. Like what we do like to explain to like civilian pilots is like we are flying like a bush plane. We are flying 200 feet over the the trees, dropping some bundles. Soon we'll we'll be able to go at 150 feet to drop messages to people.

Rock: 59:02

And we take like this aircraft who's as big as a Dash eight. And we open up the ramp in the back and there are some people on the ramp dropping stuff and everything. And you just like in the front, you're flying it like you have 45 degrees to do like mountain countering. We it's it's super fun. It's super fun to fly.

Rock: 59:22

Yeah. Now we're like a big team. And it's not one of the thing like with the Harvard and the Hawk is like you're flying it like for an hour and there's like so much stuff happening. So much stuff. And like it's after like a normal mission on a Hawk however, it was like 1.2.

Rock: 59:37

So an hour, twelve minutes. And now like you get at the you get home, you do your stuff and you go again for flying. And at the night, like maybe you go in a mess and all your buddy are having a beer and we talk, oh, today was good. And you debrief and you realize like, oh, well, that was amazing what we did today, you know, and you feel good about it. I always feel like the Kingfisher, like we're like the team, like minimum is six people.

Rock: 01:00:00

And there's like some downtime that we can talk about it and you are, you don't need to wait at night to love what you're doing. Like, you're right in it. You have just enough time that you're just like enjoying it, soaking into it and boom, you're doing like another drop and you go right in front of a ball dropping a pump. And like right after you can just come and you can like assess if your drop was good and trying to find another way and boom, we're back at 300 feet middle of the night, like on NVGs and dropping stuff to it's it's good. It's amazing.

Rock: 01:00:31

It's such a good feeling.

Bryan: 01:00:33

That sounds really cool. Yeah. So you were one of the pilots for the Skies Magazine photoshoot, which I was actually on board for back in June, which was an incredible experience for me. What was it like finally getting some great flying pictures of yourself after all these years?

Rock: 01:00:48

Yeah. It's the first time I have like some like of professional photograph taking picture of me flying. So that was amazing. That's good. And the first that's why the first preview we got so Olivier, like, brought me in the in his office.

Rock: 01:01:02

And he was like he was like, Brock, look at the picture. And the picture was like the kingfisher on a like, a little bit like ring bank. But the thing is, with the shadow, we cannot see Olivier, but you can see my face smiling. And Olivier was like, I'm not even on the picture. And I was just like, me with sunglasses, a big smile on my face, and just like for information with another kingfisher.

Rock: 01:01:24

That was that was such a good experience. That was fun.

Bryan: 01:01:27

I had a funny story. When I was flying over Iraq, we brought up a photographer one day and like a person from like the public affairs photo tech. And every time I was flying in the seat, they were like out in the back dealing with the back end crew or something or resting. And every time I got out for my turn to rest, they would be up there taking pictures of all the pilots and they finally came up and they got one photo of me and it was me and the copilot eating pizza and we were cheersing our pizzas. So the only picture of me the whole time is cheersing our pizzas over Iraq.

Rock: 01:02:03

That's awesome. Yeah. We we had like during like the last in Comox, we have a National Geographic crew filming Oh, cool. My old crew for that. And but, of course, I was, like, Sartex, like, centralized.

Rock: 01:02:18

So, like, they were, like, in the back and everything. And every time they were, like, filming me, I was, like, a beef jerky in my mouth, drinking water and just, like I was, like, doing, like, something stupid and I I turned and, the camera is right in my face. I'm like, oh my god. Yeah. It's so bad.

Rock: 01:02:37

But yeah. No. That was good. I'm glad you were there for that. That's that's awesome.

Rock: 01:02:41

Yeah. You Sometimes it's difficult for us to share what we do and giving you the experience to share it and you can talk about it. Make it real. Make make it's good. I really enjoyed that.

Bryan: 01:02:55

Yeah. I was very grateful. I never ended up getting a last flight with the RCAF. I was grounded while I was on parental and I never came back to flying and it just never worked out that I got a last flight. So to get a chance to go flying again with the RCAF was amazing.

Bryan: 01:03:11

And Dan Fox was fantastic. He they let me have a chance to fly the plane and it was a very special thing for me.

Rock: 01:03:18

Oh, yeah. Dan Fox is our what the expert matter and everything.

Bryan: 01:03:24

So as the first air crew to hold SAR posture in the Kingfisher, what do you hope to contribute to the fleet, the mission and the next generation of crews coming up behind you?

Rock: 01:03:32

Well, that's a very loaded question. So we're just like right at the tip. So we are the first one experiencing the King Fresher. So what I will what I will really want is just like learn enough to to pass to the next crew. So, like, I I wish I go back to four eighteen at the next posting, go back at a school so I can, like, teach the new the next generation of Kingfisher pilot just like all the lesson learned that we we are experiencing right now at four four two.

Rock: 01:04:05

Like, yeah, we we passing a lot of information along with the four eighteen and everything, but, like, sometime, like, experiencing it is much better. But, like, that's what I hope. I hope that the next at the Air Force give me the opportunity next to just teach again. Because turns out I love I love teaching. Like, I know sometimes I wanted to get away from it, but but seeing that, I always go back to it.

Rock: 01:04:28

But, like, just like teaching to the next generation of of FOs. Awesome. That's to be just better. Be better pilots. Save save life.

Rock: 01:04:37

That's what we do at the end.

Bryan: 01:04:39

Yeah. In thirty seconds or less, convince new pilots that they want to fly the Kingfisher.

Rock: 01:04:45

Oh, man. That's thirty seconds. Like, I just need to sit down and in the seat, and they will just, like, love it. In thirty seconds. Okay.

Rock: 01:04:54

It's the great compromise on size. It's not too small. It's not too big. The mission is amazing. It's very rewarding.

Rock: 01:05:04

You are you don't need to deploy to do the mission. We are twenty four hours seven, on duty. I will be on duty in a week and a half during, like, a New Year's. And, like, I'm a one phone call, two hours to be in the air and go save life. It's, the mission is amazing.

Rock: 01:05:21

The people are very smart, very patient. I think, like, the the name the patient about, like, SAR in Canada, it's crazy. And it's it's such a rewarding mission. You know? Like, we just we save life.

Rock: 01:05:39

That's what we do. Like, if you're lost on a mountain, you break your legs or your ship is, like, sinking or you're you have, like, a heart attack, like, where no nobody can now go grab you. Like, we will take off and we will go grab you. We'll find you. We'll save you, and we'll rescue you.

Rock: 01:05:58

We'll at the end, we'll survive. It's we are there. Like, it's amazing. Like, when everything fails, we take off and we make we do the mission.

Bryan: 01:06:07

That's awesome.

Rock: 01:06:07

It's, it's such a rewarding when you land after and, like, you know, like, you save, like, some people, like, found, like, a sinking boat. Or, one of my mission of my first mission with the US Coast Guard, like, there was a Canadian crew, like, a Canadian fishing boat or, like, the one of the two crewmen got injured. And the US Coast Guard didn't have, like, Hercules of, like, top covers. And we took off from Comox, found the boat, like, two hours of flying away because of the radar, prepped the boat, met the US coast guard, like, assist them. And we're like witnesses of, like, all, like, the the rescue we have.

Rock: 01:06:48

If something happened, we have everything ready in the aircraft. And at the end, like, the the fishermen, like, was safe, and we flew back home, like, six hours mission. Amazing. Just like you land like you feel like you you did like something good today. You know?

Rock: 01:07:03

It's it's such a good such a good feeling.

Bryan: 01:07:06

That's great. As we bring this interview to a close, what advice would you give to a young student in Bousseau about life as a pilot in the air force?

Rock: 01:07:14

It's very challenging. It's really the high road. Like, what you want will maybe not happen, will happen, maybe won't happen for the first time. But you can always find a way to make your dream just like happen. Take every opportunity.

Rock: 01:07:33

Alright. Never say no. Always say yes. And a good thing will happen to you. Like, you just yeah.

Rock: 01:07:40

There's so many good opportunity. And I will say, like, RCAF is like one of the best air force in the world just to take back their people. So like the German, if you leave the German air force, you're gone. You're never coming back. If you I think the USAF did the same thing for us.

Rock: 01:08:01

Like, I was gone. When I came back, I was a different person. Like and look at me right now. I'm back in the Air Force flying an amazing aircraft. But it's not like just about, like, flying.

Rock: 01:08:11

Like, I have, like, so many people. Like, right now, Jason Achappel is the wing surgeon here in, in Comox. We were in flying college together. So I know him, like, from the past twenty years. He was a long range patrol, pilot.

Rock: 01:08:27

And he said, like, you know what? Flying, I will try something else. And he switched trade. He became a doctor. And now is a pilot who is the the wing surgeon.

Rock: 01:08:36

So when you come, you are afraid that you will lose your license because I know something happens and the the the, you know, the doctor is always the public enemy of the pilot because they want to ground us. But going to Jason, he's a pilot too. His job is not to ground you like we trust him. So even it's great. Or even like Chris Fukushima, amazing arcade player, like, great person.

Rock: 01:08:57

He was a seeking pilot. We're an instructor together in Muzhjev, and his passion was law. So and he's at one point, he was done with flying, and he switched to law. And he last year, was a JAG in Comox. Wow.

Rock: 01:09:12

So it's like there's like so many opportunity. And it's not just like flying. There's like other stuff too. So, yeah, just embrace the old carrier. And if you're not happy with what's happened, they will have opportunity somewhere and just find your way.

Rock: 01:09:30

Find your way to happiness and find your way where you just like you feel comfortable about yourself and about your mission. And when you come home, like, you come home with a smile.

Bryan: 01:09:39

That's awesome. I really like that advice. Okay, Rock. That wraps up this two part conversation. I wanna thank you so much for sharing your journey from your early days in cadets to fast jets and instructing and now standing up the Kingfisher fleet in the Star World.

Bryan: 01:09:54

It's been awesome hearing your story. Thank you so much for your time. Thank you for your openness and thank you for being on the show.

Rock: 01:10:00

No. Thank you very much for having me. That was that was great. Yeah. Fly safe.

Rock: 01:10:04

Always.

Bryan: 01:10:05

Alright. That is gonna do it for our two part chat with Roc Veyer, a CC two nine five Kingfisher pilot, as well as a very experienced instructor both in Canada and abroad. Did you know that International Women's Day is March 8 and Women of Aviation Worldwide Week is March? For our next episode, we'll be sitting down with a c one thirty j Hercules pilot. She's got tons of experience serving as many women do on the front lines of the RCAF.

Bryan: 01:10:33

Do you have any questions or comments about anything you've heard in this show? Would you or someone you know make a great guest, or do you have a great idea for a show? You can reach out to us at the pilotprojectpodcast@Gmail.com or on all social media at at podpilotproject. And be sure to check out that social media for lots of great videos of our RCAF and mission aviation aircraft. As always, we'd like to thank you for tuning in and ask for your help with the big three.

Bryan: 01:10:57

That's like and follow us on social media, share with your friends, and follow and rate us five stars wherever you get your podcasts. That's all for now. Thanks for listening. Keep the blue side up. See Engineer, shut down all four.

Bryan: 01:11:12

Shutting down all four engines.