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Bryan: 00:57

Alright. We're ready for departure here at the Pilot Project Podcast, the best source for stories and advice from RCAF and Mission Aviation Pilots brought to you by Sky's Magazine. I'm your host, Brian Morrison. And here with me again today are captain Matt Chretien and captain Dylan Gilje-Allan, Canadian SEEDCORN pilots flying the P eight eight Poseidon with the Royal Air Force at RAF Lossymouth. Matt and Dylan, welcome back to the show.

Dylan: 01:20

Glad to be here.

Matt: 01:21

Thanks for having us.

Bryan: 01:22

So listeners can check out part one to hear about Matt and Dylan's early aviation stories, their training journeys, their experiences flying the CP one forty Aurora, and some of the missions that shaped them as long range patrol pilots. Today in part two, we'll be focusing on their transition to the P eight a Poseidon, what it's like operating within the RAF, the significance of SEEDCORN, and what all of this means for the future of long range patrol aviation in the RCAF. So let's talk about arriving in The UK in a cultural transition. What were your first impressions arriving at RAF lossy mouth and integrating into a new military culture?

Matt: 01:54

So I showed up on the first day and brought me into the office. And right off the bat, here's a list of all the courses that you need to get done before you start your course. So all the weapons handling and survival stuff and all the extra courses that they have to do, they take much more seriously, and it all has to be done before starting the course. Also notice that it's a much more traditional military here. All the traditions that we've slowly been going away from, like mess dinners and more like the rank structure and all that to take a bit more seriously than we do.

Dylan: 02:32

Yeah. They have they have still have separate officers, sergeants, and junior ranks messes. Those messes are not only just bars, they are living quarters. They are eating halls, and there are also events that are all done separately based on your rank group essentially. So versus Canada where we've gone towards combined messing for everything, it's just very different.

Dylan: 03:01

I had not worn my mess kit that I bought back in 2019 a single time in Canada, partially due to COVID, but also partially due to a real lack of mess dinners. But I've worn it twice since getting here, and I've had to buy a tuxedo for other events. So, yeah, they they keep us busy in that in

Matt: 03:20

that regard for sure. Yeah. They have a dinner every month pretty much here. Yeah.

Bryan: 03:24

Oh, nice. Yeah. What differences stood out immediately between RAF and RCAF ways of flying and running squadrons?

Matt: 03:33

I would say the RCAF is a fairly small air force. But because of that, we're also very agile. Whereas the RAF is much bigger than what we have in Canada. So because of that, they have a lot more rules and a lot less gray areas to operate in, if that makes sense. So for us as aircrew, it's nice here that they have a bit more structure and a bit more rules so you know where you can go and what you can do, and you have more guidance on everything.

Matt: 04:04

But in Canada, you have a little bit more flexibility to do things, and you're just more responsible for the overall picture, I guess, I could say.

Dylan: 04:14

They're definitely very aware of the PA does being a strategic asset for them. So, yeah, they're they're always aware of where every one of their jets is and always questioning if you can go away with a jet if it's going to be too far away, if you're taking a crew too far away. So it's a little bit harder to plan something like a long range pilot trainer or something like that.

Bryan: 04:41

I would imagine part of those guidelines and extra guidance and stuff is partly to do with the fact that the airspace there would be far more congested than the airspace we're used to operating in as well. Like, you take off in the Maritimes, you first of all, well, you guys have the ocean, of course, as well. But, you know, there's just so much more uncontrolled airspace in Canada than there is in The UK.

Matt: 05:02

Yes. And one thing that we do in Canada is we we do what we call do regard. Right? We just stop talking to ATC pretty much. Whereas here, they're always under an ATC service pretty much.

Matt: 05:15

So no matter what where you're flying, you could be a 100 miles off the coast, and you're still talking to ATC. So it makes things a little different, but it is it is nice to have that extra information sometimes.

Bryan: 05:26

So they don't do due regard?

Dylan: 05:28

Only outside The UK FIR, essentially, the The UK flight information region.

Bryan: 05:33

Okay.

Dylan: 05:34

So if you're in The UK controlled airspace, they have they actually have specific military controllers. They sit beside the civilian controllers in the same in the same control rooms. And they will you're asking them for clearances. You're asking them for traffic services, and they're always kind of keeping an eye on you and making sure that you're that you're safe.

Bryan: 05:55

Okay. And just for listeners, because we're kind of talking about due regard, due regard essentially, we've talked about it before in the show, but it's basically when you're in over international waters and in and you're outside of controlled airspace, domestic airspace, and you are responsible for your own traffic separation and your own safety of flight. And you've kind of you've taken that over from air traffic control.

Dylan: 06:22

Yeah. Exactly. It's, it's something that we have to do with military pilots to, to allow us to do the missions that we need to. Like, if you needed to get a a vector or clearance every time you needed to turn towards a submarine that you're hunting, you'd never get a job done.

Matt: 06:37

Yeah. Exactly. So they're they're slowly starting to war, to move towards doing it a little more, but now they're as of right now, they're a little more restricted as to how they can do and when they can do that.

Bryan: 06:49

Okay. How have you found the RAF approach to training, mentorship, and crew development?

Dylan: 06:56

One thing that's really cool that they do on the the OCU, the operational conversion unit that where you learn to fly the p eight. Before the course starts, they have what's called an FD week, a force development week, where your entire course, they spend the whole week going and doing activities together, going and essentially bonding as a course. My course went to Edinburgh for three days. We visited the Edinburgh Castle. We did a rock climbing center.

Dylan: 07:29

We went and did go karts one day. Awesome. And and then on the way back, came to a museum and saw some of the the history of our squadron at forty two squadron. I I thought it was a really cool thing to do because when I I remember when we were doing our ROOTU, the operational training unit, I didn't meet any of the backend crew until probably halfway through the course. I was never close with them.

Dylan: 07:57

Would be I hate to say I don't remember who was on my course from the back end, but I don't remember who those people were because we just never really interacted. So that's something that I wish we could bring back to Canada that having a close bonded course really makes the the flying go a lot easier as well, especially when you're in those early days.

Bryan: 08:17

Yeah. I mean, that sounds amazing. I I echo your sentiments on the Aurora course. I I know I would I know some of the people I was on course with because they were pretty big characters and they're memorable people, but I couldn't tell you everybody that I was on course with for sure.

Matt: 08:31

Yeah.

Bryan: 08:31

And I would love to because one of my favorite things about the Aurora and and the large crew aircraft is interacting with everybody and getting to know people of all ranks and different positions on the aircraft. It's it's one of the greatest things about that airplane.

Matt: 08:47

Totally. Exactly. Everyone has a different perspective and different background. Mhmm.

Bryan: 08:53

What were the biggest adjustments to living and working in Scotland?

Matt: 08:57

It's all just the basic things. Groceries, stores. You don't have a Canadian Tire here or Walmart to go to where you're gonna find everything. So when you're just trying to look for a toaster, you just have to find where they sell that now. So it's just like the basic things.

Matt: 09:14

Even just like you're used to your laundry detergent, your toilet paper, your dish soap, stuff like that. The same brands don't exist here. So you go to the store and everything looks different, and now you have to start reading all the labels again, trying to figure out what you need, or where things are placed in the grocery store. And then there's obviously the driving as well, different side of the road

Bryan: 09:37

Yeah.

Matt: 09:37

Than what we're used to in Canada. So that takes some getting used to all the different driving rules.

Dylan: 09:42

And I brought over my two cars from Canada, so I'm driving on both the wrong side of the car and the wrong side of the road.

Matt: 09:48

Exactly.

Bryan: 09:49

Oh, you brought yours over?

Dylan: 09:50

I did. Yeah. Yeah.

Bryan: 09:53

Is it challenging driving on the wrong side of the road for the car?

Dylan: 09:56

You know, I thought it would be, and, it's not. It was actually a bit of an easier transition because at least you're comfortable with the car, surprisingly enough.

Matt: 10:05

Yeah. Surprisingly. Yeah.

Bryan: 10:07

Not to mention the muscle memory of which way to look before you cross the road.

Dylan: 10:12

Oh, absolutely. Yes. I still second guess that sometimes. We'll double check, make sure I'm not gonna get run over. Yeah.

Dylan: 10:19

And people do not stop for pedestrians here. You you will get smooshed.

Matt: 10:25

Yeah. Pedestrians don't have right of way here. So

Bryan: 10:27

Oh.

Matt: 10:28

Yeah. And then there's also language barrier that we Dylan was talking about earlier Yeah. Where, sure, everyone speaks English, but it's a completely different accent, different vocabulary.

Dylan: 10:40

We deal with a lot of, English southern accents here just because there's it's a bit of a melting pot in the RAF. But when you get a real Scott in the room, it's it can be it's taken a long time to get to the point where I can understand them in the same room.

Matt: 10:57

Yeah. And it's same thing with ATC or even some of the instructors. There's one of the instructors here that is very Scottish, and it took a while before I could clearly understand him when he was teaching us.

Bryan: 11:11

That's funny.

Matt: 11:12

But now we're all fine.

Bryan: 11:13

You wouldn't expect a language barrier in a first language English country, but, of course, the the accent would make all the difference.

Matt: 11:21

Exactly.

Bryan: 11:23

Did anything surprise you about day to day life on base or within your squadrons?

Matt: 11:27

Few things I've noticed that were kind of different. They have and this is gonna be very stereotypical of the Brits is that they have what they call a tea bar in every squadron. It's just like a break room where you can get tea and coffee, and it's used by pretty much everyone in the squadron. You can interact with everyone here, which is not something that we have back home in Greenwood. The exec are in their part of the building.

Matt: 11:54

The air crew are in another part of the building. The technicians are in another part as well. Whereas here, you have this common space where you can all kinda go and chat and same thing. It's great for the instructors and the students on the OCU as well because you can ask questions and just have a chat and get to know them better, which not something that we have in Canada, which would be nice if we could bring back probably.

Bryan: 12:19

How about you, Dylan?

Dylan: 12:21

I'll I'll just say that they take security a lot more seriously than than we do back home. They're right in the thick of things out here and there's an armed guard at the front gate twenty four hours a day. You need a separate pass to get into the building where we work, you have to scan through every door. It's definitely a bit of a mindset change to think of. Perceive a real threat here or back home.

Dylan: 12:49

We're just so isolated from anything that we have no I wouldn't say no concerns, but it's just a little bit more lax.

Bryan: 12:57

Yeah. And and almost like, I don't want people to think, like, you don't mean that in a negative way. No. Just that it's a different different set of necessities

Dylan: 13:06

Exactly.

Bryan: 13:06

Based on location and Yeah. Isolation. And even despite that,

Dylan: 13:10

just recently in, Bryce Norton, RAF Bryce Norton, they had a a group of activists, storm the airfield essentially on electric scooters and Oh my goodness. And spray, 200 cans of spray paint in the engines and all over the aircraft of a Voyager. I don't know. So you can imagine that what that might do to the to an aircraft.

Bryan: 13:32

Oh my gosh.

Dylan: 13:33

Yeah. So despite all that, they still have they still have real intrusions and real threats.

Bryan: 13:40

Wow.

Matt: 13:41

And this is something that once we get the p eights, we're gonna get more security as well because that's inherently connected to to the p eight.

Bryan: 13:48

Yep. I was gonna say both the p eight and the f thirty five are gonna bring big changes to bases in terms of their security footprint. And they are, I believe, starting a trade now for airfield security forces instead of the wing auxiliary security force or WOSIF. It'll be an actual trade. Whereas right now, it's people from all throughout the base are are on different shifts basically if it needs to be activated.

Bryan: 14:12

So, yeah, you're right. It is gonna change.

Matt: 14:14

Yeah. Greenwood will not look the same when we go back.

Bryan: 14:17

Yeah. Let's talk about your Poseidon conversion course and training pipeline. Matt, can you walk us through what the Poseidon conversion course 15 has involved?

Matt: 14:27

Yeah. So the course is, separated into three phases. You start with foundation phase, and then you go into the observer phase and the applied phase, which I'll talk about later. So unlike the Aurora OTU, all the students start at the same time. Whereas on the Aurora, you had the pilots and the flight engineers starting a few months before the rest of it.

Matt: 14:50

Now everyone starts at the same time. The first week is is for courses that are common to all trades. So basic aircraft knowledge, safety, and stuff like that. And then you split off into your trades. We do about three or four weeks of ground school with a few exams in there, and that's all taught by Boeing contractors.

Matt: 15:14

And then we move into the sim, do a few sims there, just practicing flying emergencies. They start with the automation a lot And so the hand flying, which is what we're used to starting with. Now it's kind of the opposite. And then at the end of that phase, that's foundation phase, you'll get your instrument rating ticket, your IRT, and the handling check because you have to have a type rating, before you even touch the plane. And then you move on to the observer phase, which is just pod trainers.

Matt: 15:49

You do four of them. Just fly different airports, do practice approaches, stuff like that. And then you move on to the applied phase, which is where you learn how to fight the aircraft, basically. So we'll go over a few different kind of mission profiles. We'll do anti submarine warfare on diesel submarines, nuclear submarines.

Matt: 16:12

We'll do maritime ISR.

Bryan: 16:14

Which is, intelligence surveillance reconnaissance?

Matt: 16:17

Exactly. And, we'll do, anti surface warfare and search and rescue. And for each of those phases, you'll basically have, theory classes with instructor, then you'll have a tutorial where you're basically gonna discuss how you do all this stuff. Then you'll do a simmer too and then a couple of flights as well. So for each phase, you do all these steps, and then you move on to the next one, and you'll do it over again.

Matt: 16:45

Start front loading all of the courses like what we do in Canada.

Bryan: 16:49

Okay.

Matt: 16:49

And then at the end, you have a week. They call it ex fledgling, where you just go to different place and you operate there as a crew for a week. Normally, traditionally, it's in, Navy Air Station, Sigonella in Italy. Dylan went to Jacksonville for a week, and I just got back last week from Iceland. Oh, cool.

Matt: 17:12

So we were there. We got five flights out during the seven days that we were there.

Bryan: 17:18

That would have been in, Keflavik?

Matt: 17:19

Yeah. Exactly. Keflavik. The RAF had a huge attachment there, so we went and joined them for that. And then at the end, you just get your checkride and you're done.

Matt: 17:30

You graduate.

Bryan: 17:31

So how do you feel? You're not quite done, right? You just haven't done your checkride yet?

Matt: 17:35

So I did my checkride on Monday. I did final written exams yesterday and then basically have the rest of the week kind of off. And the week after Christmas, I have a couple refresher simpson flights that just need to get done before I can go to the front line.

Bryan: 17:53

Okay. Wow. Yeah. So you're done your course then though at this point?

Matt: 17:57

Pretty much. There's still again, there's two sims and a flight that are still part of the course Okay. That we have to do later on, but the check ride is done.

Bryan: 18:06

Oh, well, congratulations on that. That's huge.

Matt: 18:08

Thank you.

Bryan: 18:09

After all that training, you know, how do you feel? Do you feel ready to go on the front lines?

Matt: 18:14

I think so. They, a different thing that they do here is that the basic training, they do scenario based training a lot more than what we do back home. It's not standardized, I guess. But you know how back home on the course, you you have all these different maneuvers that you have to do, and then that's all graded on a score sheet, basically. And the instructor will be sitting next to you and say, okay.

Matt: 18:37

Track this buoy. Go find this ship.

Bryan: 18:40

Yeah. Show me show me this.

Matt: 18:41

Show me this. Right? Whereas here, you basically sit in a room. The the way the checkride goes is the instructors let the students alone in a room for two hours, say, come up with where you wanna go, what you wanna do, how are you gonna do it. So you have to plan your mission from scratch, and then you move on to the front line.

Dylan: 19:00

Wow.

Matt: 19:01

So I think that moving on, I think you have a better idea of how to do it because you've always been running missions, basically. That makes sense?

Bryan: 19:10

Yeah. You're a little more involved with, like, the planning side of the mission.

Matt: 19:13

Exactly. And all the flights are basically mission. So it's not, let's just look for random ships. They'll come in the morning and say, we are looking for this ship. You have to stay away from all the unknown ships by 10 miles.

Matt: 19:30

Just work your way through it.

Bryan: 19:32

Okay. What would each of you say was the steepest part of the learning curve transitioning from the Aurora to the p eight?

Dylan: 19:40

I mean, the biggest the biggest change, think, is the automation.

Bryan: 19:44

Yeah.

Dylan: 19:44

So you've gone from the Aurora that has basically what a level a level hold system to a what's a full airliner system with the LNAV and VNAV and

Bryan: 19:58

Which is lateral and vertical navigation.

Dylan: 20:01

Yeah. Exactly. So, I mean, if you have everything set up correctly, you can go from top of descent, cross your arms, the plane will throttle the engines back. It will fly down a glide slope and it'll find its way to 100 feet to even turn off the automation and land it or with a system that we're not allowed to use, it even has an auto land built into it. It could land itself in theory.

Dylan: 20:27

We're not, we're restricted from using that system. So it is a huge learning curve trying to figure out how exactly the automation is thinking, how to program the automation. And, if you don't have it programmed right, it can really bite you. And if you yeah. If you don't know what it's doing, it's generally helpful but can be detrimental too.

Bryan: 20:51

Well, which is like true for all automation, right? If you don't understand what it's doing, sometimes it's going to do exactly what you told it to do, but you might have told it You might think you've told it to do one thing and it's going do exactly what you told it to do, but it's not what you thought.

Dylan: 21:07

Exactly. Yeah.

Matt: 21:08

Garbage in, garbage out.

Bryan: 21:10

Yes. That's right. What would you say is the steepest learning curve, Matt?

Matt: 21:15

It's the automation as well. Yeah. The automation is practically nonexistent on Dior. And now they kind of encourage you to turn the autopilot on at 400 feet on departure and then turn it off at minimums on your approach before you land. So it's just different.

Bryan: 21:31

Totally different mindset.

Matt: 21:32

Exactly. And like I was saying earlier, even on the early Sims, the first Sim is entirely flown on automation. You do not hand fly the plane at all. The first Sim that comes in the later ones. So it's just a different philosophy of how to do things.

Matt: 21:48

So when you're not used to doing that, you're just used to, I wanna turn right. You turn the plane right, and now you have to tell in a different way to do so. It takes a bit more thinking.

Bryan: 22:01

How much of your Aurora experience carried over naturally and where did you need to start fresh?

Dylan: 22:07

One thing I'll say is that I think for both of us, we, it's not like we were, twenty year veterans of the Aurora fleet. I don't think we were particularly stuck in our ways. Yeah. I can confirm or deny that. But, yeah.

Dylan: 22:23

Yeah. Like I had I had six hundred hours on the Aurora. So I I think that's enough for me to have maritime experience to have an idea how to how to do our mission sets, but not so much that I would be rigid and stuck and not be able to be adaptable to a new airframe. I I suspect that's probably why they sent us on this out can.

Bryan: 22:42

I would think so. Yeah.

Dylan: 22:43

Yeah. I I think we were probably at the right spot in our in our training to to really be able to to to get our sink our teeth in on a new fleet for sure.

Matt: 22:53

Yep. And, like Dylan said, bring all, like, the operational part of things. At the end of the day, it's pretty much the same tactics. It's the same kind of mission set. So having that knowledge kinda helps and, you know, you have a foot to stand on there.

Matt: 23:09

And then there's also the CRM or the crew resource management, which is the same. You're still operating with fairly large crew, same positions and stuff like that. So how do you interact with them doesn't really change given that you're on new air new platform.

Bryan: 23:26

Okay. How does the simulator training compare to in aircraft learning?

Dylan: 23:32

Like, the the reality is is that every seven three seven operator, which the p eight is based on a seven three seven, does their entire type rating in the simulator. Their first flight is on a on a live flight with a full load of passengers. So the simulator is great. It's it's accurate. It really gives you a a proper picture of how you're

Bryan: 23:51

flying. Awesome.

Matt: 23:53

And same thing for the mission simulator. They'll actually start your mission on the ground, on the runway. You take off. You have your whole transit to take care of stuff, and then you run your mission and they can practice different emergencies like hunk stores and stuff like that when you're trying to conduct an attack or Awesome. It's quite useful.

Bryan: 24:16

Yeah. I mean, simulation is so is becoming more and more important as technology improves. And, you know, obviously, it's a huge cost saver. And it's also you know, people might think, like, you know, there's a certain school of thought that's like simulation is garbage or only takes you so far. Now it it can only take you so far for certain things, but in some ways, it's better, like, when it comes to training for emergencies, for example, you can practice them with a much higher fidelity than you can in the aircraft.

Matt: 24:44

Yeah. I think it all depends on how you make use of it. Mhmm. You you can make a simulator session super boring and irrelevant Yeah. Or you can make it quite helpful.

Bryan: 24:56

What are the biggest similarities and differences between the Aurora and the p eight?

Matt: 25:00

Biggest similarities, I would say, it's a multiengine maritime patrol aircraft with very similar sensors

Bryan: 25:09

Mhmm.

Matt: 25:09

To what the p eight has. Differences, as we said earlier, the automation, the crew's a bit smaller. We don't have a flight engineer on board. It's much more com comfortable. It's not as complex.

Matt: 25:22

So the system chats that we were talking about earlier don't really happen as much here because you don't have to get into the nitty nitty gritty of how the engine works or how the hydraulic system works. So that's quite nice.

Bryan: 25:37

Yeah. Yeah. Do you guys find it was a big change going from a turboprop to a a turbo fan?

Matt: 25:44

100%.

Dylan: 25:45

Positive one. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think I ever really understood the prop before I left the Aurora community.

Bryan: 25:52

To be fair, the prop to really understand it and to be able to go to the diagram and tell you what every one of those cams and things did took me took me probably a year and a bit. But I also, during that time, had a deployment to the desert where I spent days straight

Matt: 26:12

Looking at it.

Bryan: 26:12

Learning it and with with a flight engineer. So, yeah, that one's tough.

Matt: 26:17

Because on the OTU, we spend, like, three days, I think, just talking about engines and propellers. Yeah. And here, the engine course is, like, two hours. Yeah. So then we start asking a bunch of questions.

Matt: 26:28

They're like, no. You don't have to know this. Don't worry about it. It's like, I want to.

Bryan: 26:33

Yeah. I felt that way even when I came to Portage to fly the King Air again as an instructor candidate. I would ask, you know, why why does it do that or how does it do that? And they were like, you don't need to know this.

Matt: 26:44

No. And and the book doesn't even tell us either.

Bryan: 26:46

Well, it just shows you what do you need to know. Right? Because it's it's a it's a positive step forward because you can spend more of your brain power on tactics and procedures and actually operating the aircraft.

Matt: 26:58

Exactly.

Bryan: 27:00

Yeah. With the p eight's more modern systems, I think we've said this a little but does it feel easier to fly or does the workload simply shift to other things?

Dylan: 27:09

I think it feels easier. I think once you've got the the automation figured out, it's it's easier. You're not you're not fighting the airplane so much, and I always felt like I was fighting the airplane with the Aurora.

Matt: 27:21

Yeah. I would say it just shifts. It's just a different thing. Now instead of like I said earlier, instead of I wanna turn the aircraft, I will just turn the wheel. Now you have to do a different way.

Matt: 27:34

If you wanna bank more and bank less, then it just takes a bit more input. But it it it does feel easier to fly for most things. Yeah.

Bryan: 27:42

Okay.

Matt: 27:43

Especially for the more, like, pilot stuff. Like, if you're going to do a transit, it's a seven three seven, so it flies like an airliner.

Bryan: 27:52

Yeah.

Matt: 27:53

Super easy to fly and approach with or leave an airfield from.

Bryan: 27:58

Yeah. I imagine it's quite a dream to fly. Well, actually, don't even have to just imagine. I I had a chance to fly on a little bit when the American one came in in 2015. I got to go out for a little flight with a crew that was visiting Greenwood and they gave me, you know, five, ten minutes in the seat.

Bryan: 28:16

Yeah. But man, it's such a it is a huge difference and it's just so smooth and and easy. Quiet. Quiet. Yes.

Bryan: 28:25

It's quiet. You don't have to wear your headset inside. That's a huge plus for all of the Aurora crews out there with tinnitus. You know, enjoy your back claims. Yeah.

Bryan: 28:39

If you guys had a chance, how would each of you describe the p eight's personality as an aircraft?

Dylan: 28:43

Yeah. The yeah. The p eight is it's essentially an airliner with a bunch of military stuff strapped to it. So as as much as it's a as as it's a warfighter, it's at its core, it really just wants to stop you from spilling the the Gangnam Ganzan tonic. So, yeah, it's it's nice.

Dylan: 29:02

Awesome.

Matt: 29:03

Yeah. It's an airliner it's an airliner that does cool stuff. Yeah. I don't see many seven three sevens flying at 300 feet over the water.

Dylan: 29:10

That's for sure.

Bryan: 29:12

How is it, down low? Like, compared to an Aurora, know, the Aurora was right at home flying down low. This is an airliner that you're forcing down low. So how does it handle that?

Matt: 29:22

Actually, quite well.

Dylan: 29:23

Yeah. It does. Yeah. We don't spend as much time down low just I mean, the one thing that there are that the Aurora had and the p eight doesn't is a magnetic anomaly detector.

Matt: 29:33

Right.

Dylan: 29:34

So so that's that's mainly the reason you were down low and the Aurora was trying to sense those, magnetic disruptions under the surface of the ocean that you needed to be at 300 feet for. Mhmm. Where the p eight, we can be up a few thousand feet. It's it's no big deal.

Bryan: 29:49

Mhmm. What capability does the p eight bring to the RCAF that didn't exist before?

Matt: 29:55

Interoperability, I would say. Yeah? Now that everyone is gonna be it's it's similar as to back in the day when most nations are flying p threes, which basically the same as the Aurora. Now we are the only one still operating this. So to have all nations flying p eights just brings everyone on the same page.

Matt: 30:18

You're flying the same way. You're flying with the same equipment. If you need spares, hopefully, we're able to get some from other nations. If we break down in, let's say, here in The UK, then we could just grab some other parts. Yeah.

Matt: 30:36

I think it's interoperability. Everyone's on the same page speaking the same language.

Dylan: 30:40

Yeah. The word I'd use is dependability. So specifically the the actual flying components, the green seven thirty seven bits. I mean, the the CFM 56 engine is I think it's the most dependable turbofan engine in the world. I mean, you don't see many incidences on seven thirty sevens with their engines or in general other than the seven thirty seven max stuff, but, that's a whole other that's a whole other story.

Bryan: 31:06

Yeah, that's a different can of worms. Yeah,

Dylan: 31:09

exactly. Yeah, like I'd say, was talking about this with my wife a bit and she said on the Aurora, if I was scheduled to fly, she would say, Oh yeah, I believe it when I see it. But on the if I get scheduled on the PA, I'm probably going flying.

Bryan: 31:26

Yeah. That that just brought back a flood of memories of being on the Aurora, especially if you were like the second tasking of the day on the plane.

Matt: 31:36

Oh, yeah.

Dylan: 31:36

Oh, yeah.

Bryan: 31:37

Or if you're the third tasking, it's like, alright. It's probably not happening.

Matt: 31:41

Yeah. She's tired.

Bryan: 31:44

Yeah. What do you see as the p eight's biggest strength as a intelligence surveillance reconnaissance or ISR platform?

Dylan: 31:51

I'm going back to the dependability, Brian. Yeah. You can't you can't do good ISR unless you're there. So, yeah. I don't know.

Dylan: 32:00

I I don't think it has a particularly, the the actual kit itself is pretty similar to the Aurora as far as what ISR capability it brings, but you you gotta be there to do the job.

Bryan: 32:12

Yeah. Probably, I would assume it has a more robust comms suite in terms of beyond line of sight and that kind of stuff. Although I'm dating myself since I was on the Aurora when it was the IB loss. IB loss. Yeah.

Bryan: 32:26

And for the listeners, this stood for the interim beyond line of sight communication system.

Matt: 32:31

You're block two. Right?

Bryan: 32:33

Three. Block three.

Matt: 32:33

Block three. Okay. You had block three.

Bryan: 32:35

Well, I I I did my moat on block two and then immediately we did the block three conversion like within a month of finishing. So Okay. But anyway, I would assume it has a bit of a better comm suite, which obviously is a huge advantage. Am I right? Well, can you guys answer that?

Matt: 32:50

It's pretty similar.

Dylan: 32:51

Yeah. Yeah. It has a it has a sat phone as the as the big thing, a built in sat phone, and that's kind of the biggest step up, I'd say. I think the Aurora just had kind of a portable SAP phone. So that's that's probably the most beyond beyond line of sight thing that that we use day to day.

Bryan: 33:10

What link system is it running?

Dylan: 33:12

16. Link 16. Yeah.

Bryan: 33:14

Which is nice because we so for listeners, link is I think they also call it a blue force tracker or it's similar to that anyways. It's a way of keeping track of where everyone is friendly, enemy, unknown. Everyone can add to it and maintain a tactical picture and through a link, we share it all through a data link. Now the Aurora was running Link 11, which hasn't been in use in a very long time. I don't know if they've upgraded that since on the Aurora.

Matt: 33:44

It was in the process. Yeah.

Dylan: 33:46

Yeah. Block four has was working on Link 16 as well. So yeah.

Matt: 33:51

Yeah. When I left, they had a couple planes with Link 16, I think. Yeah.

Bryan: 33:57

But this one having built in Link 16 will be will be a big plus as well.

Matt: 34:03

Well, it's it's just not a Frankenstein of an aircraft like the Aurora is. Yep. The Aurora is just like a bunch of extra boxes that we added to it. Right? Because at the end of the day, it's an old aircraft that we're trying to modernize.

Bryan: 34:14

Yeah. Exactly. And you can only do that so many times without there ending up being like 10 laptops open at the back and

Matt: 34:20

Exactly.

Bryan: 34:21

All these extra boxes built in and, you know, it's an amazing capable aircraft. But like you said, she's tired. Like, that Aurora has been going since the eighties. So

Matt: 34:29

Yeah. The p eight only has one HF radio too, surprisingly.

Bryan: 34:33

Oh, really?

Matt: 34:33

Yeah. Only one instead of two like we had.

Bryan: 34:35

Is that just because it's more reliable? Or

Matt: 34:37

No. It's because the antenna is the whole skin of the aircraft. Oh, cool. Yeah. So I think it's better.

Matt: 34:44

There's some things that are an upgrade and others that are less so, I guess.

Bryan: 34:49

Well, yeah, every aircraft's a compromise. Exactly. Yeah. So Canada is making what many describe as a generational leap in technology with the p eight. How meaningful is it that the RCAF is being proactive by training crews early long before our aircraft arrive?

Matt: 35:05

Hopefully, we're gonna be able to hit the ground running when the first aircraft arrives in Canada. We're not gonna be starting from scratch with having to get everyone up to speed. We'll at least have some cadre of people that are experienced on the aircraft and have the operational knowledge and know how to be able to bring it back to Canada, and we can we're not starting from scratch, basically.

Bryan: 35:28

Yeah. That's gonna be huge.

Matt: 35:29

Yeah. And right now, we also have people that are able to help develop all the procedures and all the publications and stuff like that. So there's a direct line between us and Canada. So every time that they have a question, I think one of the pilots had a question about taxiway width. So we were able to get back to him fairly quickly and say, yeah, that works.

Bryan: 35:50

Yeah. Right on. Let's talk about some of the operational flying that you've been doing with the RAF. Dylan, you transitioned straight from the OCU or operational conversion unit to live operations. What stands out from those first missions?

Dylan: 36:04

Yeah. So the, like, the the tack check that Matt just finished this week when I was doing my tack check six months ago that we were we were on live operations essentially. So we as an OCU crew and untrained crew were tasked to operate to track Russian submarines in the Atlantic, and we were given the reins. We were told to take control, do what you've been trained to do. And the instructors sat in the back.

Dylan: 36:38

They were there. If they were needed to step in, they were there. But really we hopped onto it and we were successful, I'd like to say. So I'd call it a pretty big vote of confidence, especially going onto our operational squadrons right after that to say, oh yeah, these guys, they must be pretty okay at their job if they can already do the job while on their OCU. And

Bryan: 37:05

just in case listeners are wondering why Dylan can talk about that, that stuff is open source and in the newspapers. So it's it's not a secret that they're doing that kind of work. Dylan, how has flying with two zero one squadron shaped you as a PA pilot? I'm four months off my OCU now. And so I'm in

Dylan: 37:24

many ways still getting my footing on the squadron, but I've really loved being at two zero one squadron. They have a really good environment for learning. When you get to squadron, essentially get put in with all the pilots. You have a pilot's office. There's always somebody in there that's ready to chat a system with you or talk about tactics or just start pushing you in the right direction towards your upgrades.

Bryan: 37:47

Awesome.

Dylan: 37:48

They've two zero one Squadron has been really happy to to integrate me even as a Canadian who's only here for a short time. I was a little afraid that that might be a bit of a problem that they would maybe shun me to the side and focus on their their own people. But they've been very happy to spill me up for ops and deployments and, yeah, just treat treat me as one of their own.

Bryan: 38:10

That's great. Yeah. How does operating just a few hours from major global hotspots affect your sense of purpose and risk?

Dylan: 38:18

Yeah. So, I mean, we are in lossy mouth. If you start if you take off and fly two hours to the east, you will reach the Ukrainian border having overflown five different countries airspace. So I just say that as a bit of an idea of how central we are out here versus Canada where there's nothing around us. If we want to do anything in Canada, we're deploying and we're setting up somewhere else.

Dylan: 38:48

So it's definitely a bit of a mindset shift. The P8 fleet here can do pretty much anything they want to do out of lossy mouth. There's not a lot of deploying, they just don't need to. They're already kind of in the thick of the action, you know what I mean. So yeah, you said about purpose and risk.

Dylan: 39:10

Yeah, I mean, if I take the wrong turn somewhere, who knows? I could be in a surface to air missile ring somewhere that I'm really not supposed to be. So it takes a lot more vigilance, a lot more just awareness of the of the the threats around you.

Matt: 39:25

Yeah. Say that in Canada, do a lot of fishery patrols and stuff like that, which is not a thing that they do around here because they're focused on other stuff related to Russia and stuff like that.

Bryan: 39:37

Makes sense. Just given the physical location, given the transit routes of ships and things and submarines and all that kind of stuff.

Matt: 39:44

Exactly. And what we would deploy to go do from Canada, they just do from here.

Bryan: 39:51

Mhmm. Do theirs have the ability to air to air refuel?

Dylan: 39:55

They do. Yeah. There's nobody there's one person trained on it in our fleet at the moment, but I think it's something that they do wanna stand up as they go forward.

Bryan: 40:04

Mhmm.

Matt: 40:04

Yeah. They did do a couple of times in September, actually. He was the one instructor that's certified to do that was showing others how to do it as well. And they did an exercise with the Americans and refueled.

Bryan: 40:18

Very cool. Yeah.

Matt: 40:19

Yeah.

Bryan: 40:20

Yeah. Because I remember the Americans talking about when the aircraft was new, how that was gonna be a a game changer of a capability for long range patrol. So it'll be even more so would make it even more doable to operate out of lossy mouth and go to global operations.

Matt: 40:35

Yeah. Exactly.

Dylan: 40:36

I think it's gonna be very important for patrolling the Canadian North.

Bryan: 40:39

Mhmm.

Dylan: 40:39

And I know that's one of the the main goals of our of our current defense policy. So, if we can patrol most of the North even without deploying, that would be a

Bryan: 40:49

Oh, that'd be huge. I think it's a game changer. Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely.

Bryan: 40:55

Like, it's a challenge to operate and deploy out of more austere environments like like Yellowknife or Whitehorse or

Matt: 41:02

Iqaluit.

Bryan: 41:03

Iqaluit, especially in the winter and all the joys that brings with keeping aircraft running well. So if you could do that from further south, that'd be huge. Yeah. So let's talk about the history of SEEDCORN and some five eyes interoperability. For listeners unfamiliar with it, what is the history behind Project SEEDCORN and why is it strategically important?

Matt: 41:27

So a few years ago, The UK got rid of the Nimrod, which was their maritime patrol aircraft at the time. And then a lot of the positions on the aircraft were made redundant, and they basically lost their job. But to be able to keep the experience and stuff like that, they sent a bunch of crews to different nations across the world, including Canada. So we hosted a few of them, and it just flew with the nations for a few years. And then when the p eight was announced, they were able to transition, fairly seamlessly and still have some experience.

Matt: 42:04

They're not starting from fresh.

Bryan: 42:06

Yeah. We had a couple of those. I didn't realize at the time that it was called Project SEEDCORN, but we did have a few Brits on squadron when I was in four zero five squadron within the Aurora community when I was on the plane that, were were there from Project SEEDCORN.

Matt: 42:19

Yeah. And some stayed around and others came back to the RAF. Yeah. But we still have a few people in Greenwood that are from, SEEDCORN. Wow.

Matt: 42:27

Just stayed there.

Bryan: 42:29

Now some Canadians think the RAF is simply doing us a favor by hosting our crews, but the RAF has said that this is actually returning the favor for when Canada helped them during their original project, SEEDCORN. How do you see that relationship?

Dylan: 42:41

Yeah. Like, the stand down of their Nimrod program and the stand up of the SEEDCORN program, I mean, that can only hold so many people, that can only hold so much experience. So it was a ten year period before the P8 was operationally capable. So what we essentially had out here was we've got this group of SEEDCORN's that's very, very experienced. A lot of them now have gone to work for the civilian contractors for Boeing and CAE.

Dylan: 43:09

So there's definitely an experience gap, I'd say. So they're pushing through Ab Initio, basically new ingrats through their system quite quickly now, trying to upgrade to aircraft commander as quickly as they can as well without quite as much experience as I'd say that a more mature fleet like the Aurora would have had just because it's necessary in the end. Bringing So us over from Canada with, you know, 600 of maritime experience while they still have to train us and while we're still learning a new aircraft, we do bring a lot of useful experience to them.

Matt: 43:53

We also have, like, Canadian know how of how we operate that we can still bring here and kinda help things move along a bit.

Bryan: 44:02

So it's still like a a mutually beneficial relationship, I'll say. Like, both parties are getting something out of it, and it's something where we can come together and work together.

Dylan: 44:12

Absolutely. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. And like I said earlier, like, it's February been very happy to have me at the squadron.

Dylan: 44:19

It's it's a very beneficial, very mutual agreement for sure.

Matt: 44:23

And just like in Canada, they also need more people. So having a whole crew show up that can upgrade fairly quickly is, an asset for them.

Bryan: 44:37

Yeah. To help supplement what they have already on strength.

Matt: 44:40

Exactly.

Bryan: 44:41

Yeah. How has it been working with a mix of highly experienced former Nimrod operators and brand new RAF air crew?

Dylan: 44:50

Yeah. The the Ab Initio guys that I do work with, you know, you know, I say that they're not super experienced, but they're also competent as well. So, I mean, they're they're pushing them to upgrade, but they are they are filling those roles really, really well as well. So and having these people in the background, even if they're having these experienced people in the background work, even if they're working at Boeing, they are they are still providing that experience down to everybody and standing up really, really competent crews. I would agree.

Bryan: 45:20

Yeah. How would you guys describe the rapport between RCAF and RAF aviators on a day to day basis?

Matt: 45:27

It's the same as being back home, really. They see us as equals and just cultural exchange, stuff like that. Obviously, they wanna know how we do in Canada and all the different things that we eat and traditions, stuff like that. And we get the same thing from them. Like, I one one of the girls was eating a snack, and then she found out that I never had it before.

Matt: 45:54

And she was all excited that she could show me this new thing. So it it's been great. And, obviously, we speak differently than they do, so there's a banter that comes with that as well. So we're just close friends, and it's the same as being back home, really.

Bryan: 46:11

How about for you, Dylan?

Dylan: 46:13

Yeah. Much the same. I mean, I get a joke about riding my moose to work and how how was how was sleeping in my igloo back home. And they're trying their best to train me to speak like a good Englishman. Yeah.

Dylan: 46:28

Every time I say, oh, we're going around a traffic circle up here and they they go, what? They they ask I should be calling it a roundabout apparently. Yeah.

Matt: 46:38

Or parking lots or car parks.

Dylan: 46:40

Yeah.

Bryan: 46:41

So just getting all the all the different language down.

Dylan: 46:45

Yeah. Exactly.

Matt: 46:46

And our grad tomorrow, we're making moose milk, which everyone is super excited about.

Bryan: 46:51

Oh, nice.

Dylan: 46:52

Brits love moose milk.

Matt: 46:54

So it's become this huge Canadian thing. Yeah.

Bryan: 46:57

Well, everybody everybody it's dangerous stuff. You have to enjoy it in moderation, but everybody at all the international exercises gets excited for when the Canadians make moose milk, which listeners of who are of age can look up the recipe online and see if they can find a good one and it's a it's a delicious treat, but you have to be careful with it. Now I've heard that wearing the RAF flight suit has sparked some conversations back home. What has that experience been like?

Dylan: 47:24

It's a this is a funny one. It's just yeah. We are required to wear the RAF flight suit because of the aircrafts that relates to service. So we we have to wear their flight suit, their boots, but we still wear Canadian flags. We still wear Canadian ranks.

Dylan: 47:40

I still wear my Canadian jackets, and I still wear my my Canadian headdress as well. So it's I I think it's a nonissue. I'm required to wear the flight suit. So yeah.

Matt: 47:51

Yeah. And at the end of the day, it just feels like a same uniform really. You just get used to it and doesn't really make too much of a difference for us.

Bryan: 47:59

Okay. Fair enough. Let's talk tips, lessons learned in the future of long range patrol aviation in Canada. What lessons should the RCAF take home from SEEDCORN, especially the exposure to RAF and allied tactics, techniques, procedures? And how will this shape Canada's ability to develop its own capabilities on the p eight?

Matt: 48:18

This is a big question.

Bryan: 48:19

It is.

Matt: 48:20

It is. There's so many directions that we could go with this one.

Dylan: 48:24

The way this transition is going to go, it's, most of our crews are going go down to Jacksonville and be trained in Jacksonville. The the course in Jacksonville is just essentially a six month conversion course. There's very little tactical upgrades or anything like that you get. You're essentially just learning how to operate the aircraft. So I think us bringing back some operational experience, some I I think will be a very important piece of the pie when we go back, just trying to to make sure that everyone is able to to take what they learned in Jacksonville and actually apply it.

Dylan: 49:01

So I'm I'm very happy for the the RAF to give us this time to to stand ourselves up to hopefully let the Jacksonville people stand on our shoulders as well.

Bryan: 49:12

What do you guys expect when you go home? Like, do you expect to be in an instructional role, a standards role? Like, do have any idea what that's gonna look like for you?

Matt: 49:20

I think they're still trying to figure that part out for us. Yeah. The people who are in Jacksonville right now, because there's a whole crew in Jacksonville as well, that will stay there for a few years to instruct. I think the plan for them is to come back to Canada as instructors. For us, since we aren't qualified in truck compliance or anything like that, I think the intent to stab us on the front line as crew commanders and in standards and training roles, stuff like that as well.

Bryan: 49:47

That makes sense.

Dylan: 49:48

I wouldn't be surprised if we transitioned over to to instructional roles, but the the OTU is probably not gonna stand up for until twenty thirties, something like that once we get simulators in place.

Bryan: 49:59

Okay. So you're more likely to be, as you said, a a crew commander, pilot standards role, that kind of thing.

Dylan: 50:05

Absolutely. Yeah.

Matt: 50:06

Exactly. Because the guys in Jacksonville are gonna be able to teach how to operate the aircraft. We're just gonna kinda mentor the the the crews into how this actually happens in the real world.

Bryan: 50:18

Awesome. What do you think Canada's p eight fleet will look like once their squadrons are fully established?

Matt: 50:24

They'll be busy. Yeah. Very busy. I think, the transition's gonna happen fairly quickly. They've already started retiring Auroras, so there won't be too many left when we get back.

Matt: 50:37

But we still have the same demands for the fleet as to all the operations that we have to fly on and stuff like that. And I think, initially, everyone's gonna be fairly low experience as well. Some people are planning on transitioning, but it's not the whole fleet. Some will be retiring at the end of this. So it'll just take some time to build up, and I think the intent is to have 10 crews on each coast Oh, wow.

Matt: 51:01

Which is over double that what we have. So and at the same time, there are so many other fleets that are coming online in the air force that everyone's gonna be wanting people. So I think it's just gonna be a nice slow, steady process.

Bryan: 51:14

So they're trying to get back to basically the the good old Aurora days where there was, like, you know, twenty, thirty crews total kind of thing.

Matt: 51:21

Exactly. So I think that, it'll I'll just be really busy on the buildup for that.

Dylan: 51:29

The reality with 14 gusting 16 airframes is that you need that many crews just to effectively use them. Mhmm. I mean, there's a reason that Ryanair flies as much as they do on their seven thirty sevens. The jets like to fly.

Matt: 51:43

Yeah.

Dylan: 51:43

And I I think we can say the same for the Aurora as well. Once you get them flying, they they really do like to to be consistently flown.

Bryan: 51:51

So Yeah. Totally. Yeah. It's when you sit for a few days that you start having maintenance issues.

Dylan: 51:55

Yeah. Exactly. Yeah.

Matt: 51:57

Yeah. Especially the computers and all that in the back like the

Dylan: 52:00

Yeah. I suspect we'll be taking a lot of the the training capacity towards the Aurora fleet for the foreseeable future, especially the the tacos. Tactical coordinators? Yeah. Yeah.

Dylan: 52:10

Tactical coordinators. That would be the the axos. That's the word I'm

Bryan: 52:14

looking for. Oh, that's what you're looking for.

Dylan: 52:17

Yeah. I'm I'm sure a lot of the Axos coming out of Winnipeg will be going, will be going to the, long range patrol fleets in the near future.

Bryan: 52:25

Which I would guess is probably one of the better postings, you know, a new brand new aircraft, interesting work. Like, if I was an Axo, that's probably where I'd wanna go. Absolutely.

Matt: 52:35

Definitely the more involved one. Yeah.

Bryan: 52:37

Yeah. As we close this episode, let's talk a little about your family life overseas. What is this Outcan posting taught each of you personally?

Dylan: 52:47

Yeah. As far as bringing my family over, it was a huge adjustment and we talked a little bit about the nuances of it with shopping and finding where things work initially. But it can be in many ways isolating, especially for my wife who doesn't have a built in friend network like I do going to work. It can take a long time to meet people, to find people that are less closed off, I guess. Because sometimes you see somebody that's a little bit different and it's just harder to connect with them initially.

Dylan: 53:24

It's taken a lot of work for my wife to make connections, to make friends and those are the small steps you have to start to make to really feel comfortable in place. So yeah, I think resilience is important. Not every day is easy. Not every day is going to visit a distillery or going to a new castle. Yeah.

Dylan: 53:47

Yeah. Yeah. It's it takes a lot of work to be to be comfortable in an Elkan location for sure.

Matt: 53:53

And I think what helps with that here is that there's a total of eight Canadian families that moved pretty much around the same time to fly on the p eight. So there's still a pretty decent network. We were all working together before we all knew each other. So it's nice to have someone that knows what you're going through and they can rely on.

Dylan: 54:12

Yeah. I'm and I'm lucky I have my my wife and my daughter here as well. It's you know, I I I do have some sort of a built in support network. So it's that makes it easier for me is for sure. Mhmm.

Matt: 54:26

I don't

Dylan: 54:26

know how you I don't know how you feel about that, Matt.

Matt: 54:28

Yeah. I moved here on my own, so I still have all my family back home and stuff like that. So it's it's a bit different, but I've still been able to make friends here and do stuff. But it's it's definitely harder as an adult to make new friends.

Bryan: 54:42

Yeah. Absolutely.

Matt: 54:44

Outside of work. Right?

Bryan: 54:45

That's a whole other podcast episode. Yeah.

Matt: 54:49

Yeah.

Bryan: 54:50

Yeah. That's it certainly is a challenge. I know my wife and I, as we get ready to move, now that I've released from the military, that's one of the biggest things we think about is our next place we live. We're not gonna have a built in instant group of friends from the military and the spouses and all that stuff. We're gonna have to figure out how do you make friends as an adult,

Matt: 55:10

like Yeah. Exactly.

Bryan: 55:12

Go join a sports team or make, you know, hopefully your kids have friends whose Yeah. Parents are cool.

Matt: 55:19

Exactly. Yeah. Yeah.

Bryan: 55:22

Looking ahead to 2028, what excites each of you most about returning home and helping shape the future of the RCAF's p eight community?

Matt: 55:30

We are getting the opportunity to put our own twist on things, I think, and kinda make a change. So there's always people that have complained of how things why things are and stuff like that. Whereas now we have a real chance to try and get it right off right off the bat and make it our own and make something that makes sense at the end of the day.

Bryan: 56:02

You know, it's it's interesting you say that because the Aurora, if I had to name one complaint that people sometimes have about the fleet, it's that it's been around for so long that it's very set in its ways. You'll run into people who've been on the aircraft for thirty years, and it can be difficult to introduce new ideas. Not to say anything like I don't mean that in a disparaging way. I think it's just something that's inherent in organizations and communities that have been around for a long time. I'm sure people would say the same would have said the same about the buff towards the end of its life or the h model now as it's entering its last years.

Bryan: 56:40

And I think it's really gonna be an interesting time for you you guys. I'm kinda jealous that you guys are gonna get a chance to shape this new fleet.

Matt: 56:47

Yeah. It's with the Aurora, it's basically been out there for forty years. And for forty years, people have been adding their own little twist to it. Mhmm. So it ends up being a lot to to deal with.

Matt: 57:00

Yeah. Whereas now we can basically start from scratch, clean slate.

Dylan: 57:04

Yeah. It's like it's like what's important and what's trivia here. Yeah. And I think that's something that that we've gotten a little bit stuck in in the Aurora fleet. So yeah.

Dylan: 57:17

Here right now in The UK, I feel like we almost have the opposite problem to that where we we don't have the answers to everything necessarily. It's the expertise isn't quite there and the the people that are working at the test pilot squadron, often get sent on some task to try and figure out what standard should be for this.

Bryan: 57:37

And

Dylan: 57:38

so, hopefully, we can take some of that knowledge, some of that some of that work that they've put in and and just embrace it and just let us be as capable as we can when we go back.

Matt: 57:49

Yeah. Yeah. And we'll be learning stuff when we get back as well, like all the Of course. Cold weather stuff and the contaminated ops on runways and stuff like that. It's not a problem that they really have here in The UK.

Dylan: 58:01

And it's it's gonna be a challenge as well that, we have. We do have four different SEEDCORN streams right now. There is the the PEP stream in Jacksonville right now. And this coming year, they're sending people to Australia and to New Zealand. So when those people come back, I bet they're gonna have a very different perspective as well.

Dylan: 58:22

So

Bryan: 58:22

Yeah. It'll be interesting to see you all combine your experiences and and use it to shape this new fleet.

Matt: 58:28

There'll be a whole melting pot. Yeah.

Bryan: 58:31

The good thing is I have flown with I haven't flown with anyone from New Zealand, but I've flown with people from England. I've flown with people from Australia and I've flown with people from the United States Navy and they were all amazing. They were all extremely professional, super hard workers, really really great to work with. So you guys are all getting input from really great organizations.

Dylan: 58:55

Absolutely. Exactly.

Matt: 58:57

And I think that we can all learn from each and every one of them as well because they all bring something different to the table.

Bryan: 59:02

Totally.

Matt: 59:03

Like, we've been talking to Norway for a couple of things. They're used to dealing with the cold and winter. So we might be learning stuff more from them for that than we would from the others.

Bryan: 59:15

Yeah. Okay, guys. That is gonna wrap up this two part interview. I wanna thank you both for sharing your journeys, your experiences flying the Aurora and Poseidon, and your insights into SEEDCORN and the future of long range patrol aviation in Canada. I think we've gained a valuable look at where the RCAF is headed, and we're so grateful you took the time to join us today.

Bryan: 59:34

So thank you so much.

Dylan: 59:35

Thanks for having us on, Brian.

Matt: 59:37

Great chatting with you.

Bryan: 59:38

Yep. Fly safe, guys.

Matt: 59:39

Thanks.

Bryan: 59:40

Alright. That wraps up our chat with Dylan and Matt about our SEEDCORN program with the RAF. For our next episode, tune in as we will be talking to one of my best buddies, captain Nils Olsen, about his time on the Sea King as well as instructing on helicopters here in Portage La Prairie. Do you have any questions or comments about anything you've heard in this show? Would you or someone you know make a great guest, or do you have a great idea for a show?

Bryan: 01:00:04

You can reach out to us at the pilotprojectpodcast@Gmail.com or on all social media at at pod pilot And be sure to check out that social media for lots of great videos of our RCAF and Mission Aviation aircraft. As always, we'd like to thank you for tuning in and ask for your help with the big three. That's like and follow us on social media, share with your friends, and follow and rate us five stars wherever you get your podcasts. That's all for now. Thanks for listening.

Bryan: 01:00:30

Keep the blue side up. See you. Engineer, shut down all four. Shutting down all four engines.